All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[ROCKnROLLS]

I don't think they should lose their title because it was very obvious they were the best. USASF and the ICU need to fix this for next year so it won't happen again. Clearly if more than 1 international team did that then there was communication error. GT won too, so everyone should be happy. Plus in this economy I'm sure all the money they paid to come to worlds.....they deserve it. Just fix it so international teams won't be confused next time. Anyways, Team Thailand<3

Hey! Ho! Ha! "Plus in this economy all the money they paid to come to worlds.... they deserve it" !? ??? Well our girls paid big money too!!!! So I guess that means our girls deserve the title too, Yah hoo lets start the celebration!

 

[ztaprincess]

If they did it just so an International team will win (which I believe is partly true) then why did they also need to adjust the scoresheets for them as well? If they were going to ignore that scoresheet and still give them credit that is just silly. Those teams have to WORK for that win just like the US teams do. Those US teams didn't get where they are today by being given a free ride to first place.

I understand that the with a language barrier in-between our communication how certain mishaps can sometimes happen. My frustrations more lied within:

Bangkok having one assisted stunt sequence and scoring how they did.

Bangkok having number wise the lowest standing, running tumbling and jumps and still scoring within a close range if not out scoring the top 2 American teams.

Bangkok outscoring both TG and GT in dance.

I'm all about an underdog coming up an doing well but not at the expense of others. Bangkok is an extremely talented
And impressive team but did not adhere to the rules and score sheets the way other teams did. In the end it would not have affected my teams placement but it boils down to what's right and what's not from the coaching and the judging.

That is what I have been saying. There should have been no way that you can take the IOC6 scoresheet and get that Bangkok should have scored the same as Gym Tyme. Gym Tyme and the other US Teams should have beat Bangkok in multiple categories. The pyramid can only score so high, and if those other teams did what needed to be done then they should have scored right there with Bangkok. Sure they did those amazing pyramids but it wasn't necessary to hit the max amount of point on the scoresheet. I believe it did mess up Top Gun's placement because I feel that they should have outscored Bangkok enough to place 2nd place right behind Gym Tyme. I just feel like they threw the scoresheet out the window for them and went with the crowd favorite.

Also since you had a team in the division have they given you a reason to why the scores and breakdowns have not been released?

 

[ztaprincess]

I don't think they should lose their title because it was very obvious they were the best. USASF and the ICU need to fix this for next year so it won't happen again. Clearly if more than 1 international team did that then there was communication error. GT won too, so everyone should be happy. Plus in this economy I'm sure all the money they paid to come to worlds.....they deserve it. Just fix it so international teams won't be confused next time. Anyways, Team Thailand<3

Crowd favorite does not make a team the best of the best. Their stunts were not better then the US Teams, their tumbling wasn't better at all, their jumps were alright, their baskets were great, and their pryamids were great but shouldn't have scored any higher then the other teams.

I wouldn't call it and kind of communication error because Bangkok knew and were trying to remove the athletes. It is an error in knowledge. The person in the warm up room should have known the rules not have to reference a book. Did they think the other teams just decided to use 12 athletes? uh no.

No not everyone is happy because Bangkok had legalities that were overlooked. I will say it again there is no way with those legality deductions and deductions for extra athletes that they should have placed first place. Not Gym Tyme, a team who played by the rules has to share their title with a team who didn't.

When 98% of the teams followed the rules you don't bend it for that 3% so no the USASF doesn't need to fix it the International teams need to understand what they are signing their names to. That is common knowledge not to sign your name on something you don't understand.

 

[cheer8]

I have to say after reading a few last page post that:
I see complaints about coming over and not having a chance to win and spending all that money- What?

Everyone has the sources to get better-
Tumbling- Everyone has a gymnastics center of some sort- most all countries have gymnastics in the olympics, so no excuse...Some say it's b/c they don't have spring floors in some countries... No excuse USA didn't have spring floor until right around 2000. My kids and I had doubles and combos to double on hard floor so again no excuse.
Stunting- Everyone has muscles and everyone can stay up to date on stunts through Youtube and other internet resources, so no excuse
Jumps- Everyone can stretch, so jump, no excuse
Dance- Every Nation, even 3 world countries dance, so no excuse
Coaches- Everyone has the same color blood- it's how you bleed it is how good your teams will be.
If you are a country lacking these tools- do like the USA in gymnastics and hire outside your country

EX) Soccer did not originate in the USA, so the USA worked to get better to try and hang with the other great futbol countries... The MLS or the Professinal Futbol leagues did not say: "Well guys U.S is behind us in their preformance and skills so we are going to change the rules and let them play with 13 people so they will have just a little hope to win the world cup... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! They didn't.
I could make many examples,
but we are holding the hands of other countries right now and they all have the resource to be just as good as US and some are already just as good as some US teams!

Kill the new score sheet and Take NCA's score sheet to worlds please!

 

[ACEDAD]

I think we should all get to vote like American Idol. Then we could have GymTyme on one side of the mat and Top Gun on the other side and ask Bangkok which group they want to stand in.

 

[Nothanks]

Tumbling- Everyone has a gymnastics center of some sort- most all countries have gymnastics in the olympics, so no excuse...Some say it's b/c they don't have spring floors in some countries... No excuse USA didn't have spring floor until right around 2000. My kids and I had doubles and combos to double on hard floor so again no excuse.
Stunting- Everyone has muscles and everyone can stay up to date on stunts through Youtube and other internet resources, so no excuse
Jumps- Everyone can stretch, so jump, no excuse
Dance- Every Nation, even 3 world countries dance, so no excuse
Coaches- Everyone has the same color blood- it's how you bleed it is how good your teams will be.
If you are a country lacking these tools- do like the USA in gymnastics and hire outside your country

thank you...i've been thinking things like that, but wasn't sure how to say it...
i don't want this to come off the wrong way, but i'd like to add, "since it isn't recognized as a sport we don't receive funding"...aside from sponsorships which gyms must work long and hard to obtain, we don't receive funding either. athletes pay and gyms do fundraisers to get the coaching staff and equipment that we have. and we aren't really recognized as a sport here either.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I wouldn't call it and kind of communication error because Bangkok knew and were trying to remove the athletes. It is an error in knowledge. The person in the warm up room should have known the rules not have to reference a book. Did they think the other teams just decided to use 12 athletes? uh no.

The rules people in the warmup room, all dressed in black USASF shirts with Safety Judge on the sleeve, were there to let coaches know about anything in their routine(s) that broke the General or Level 5/6 Rules. When notifying the coaches they had to be able to cite the exact rule broken, in case the coach asked, and be able to show it to them in the rules books. Referencing the book is something that had to be done, not because of a lack of knowledge, but because of the procedures they were asked to follow. Anything noticed, grey area, "performance error", changed in the warmup room or not, was relayed to the rules people at the scoring table. From that point it was in the scoring tables' hands because deductions were only given based on what was done on the main floor.

They people in the warmup room were also asked to let the coaches know what would be considered Out of Bounds for the weekend. They were not there to ensure a team had the correct number or composition of participants, to check any participant's age, or any of the other things it's been stated or implied they didn't do. Maybe they'll have additional responsibilities next Worlds, but didn't for Worlds 2011.

That is common knowledge not to sign your name on something you don't understand.

It is also common knowledge people sign things without reading them.

 

[cheerinfo]

@Andre ...then why were those 3 violations overlooked? I cannot imagine you can tie for 1st (or at all) with 3 legality violations. This is not meant to be argumentative, just a real question. I know the people that were in warms up...have judged with one of them quite a bit and KNOW they are good rules people. I cannot imagine that all three violations were missed TWICE. So I am just curious..... Thanks!!

 

[Deleted member 15]

@Andre ...then why were those 3 violations overlooked? I cannot imagine you can tie for 1st (or at all) with 3 legality violations. This is not meant to be argumentative, just a real question. I know the people that were in warms up...have judged with one of them quite a bit and KNOW they are good rules people. I cannot imagine that all three violations were missed TWICE. So I am just curious..... Thanks!!

I don't know because I was in the warmup room and once we reported what we saw to the scoring table it was out of sight and out of mind. Because of the confidentiality agreement Les mentioned I won't say what we saw or didn't see in the warmup room.

 

[ztaprincess]

My thing is though that Les said the people in the warm up room did not know that there should have been 12 on the mat and Bangkok was preparing to remove the extra team members. Those people then went to the book to make sure they were right about being able to use more then 12. How did they not know the rule already? If they would have known the rule then they wouldn't have stopped Bangkok from removing athletes from their team. I understand that the book can be used to check something and prove that it is in fact a rule, but if those that stopped Bangkok would have known the rule, which was known by 98% of the teams there, then this could have been avoided. I am still lost as to what was done to the other teams in warm ups that had the extra boys. Were they taking them off the team and told to stop? Or did the same person tell them that 15 was alright? I just feel like if I were back there and was paying attention I would realize how many of the teams only had 12 and realize that 12 must be the max number of guys.

I really just wish the scores and breakdowns would be posted so we could know for sure if Bangkok had the legality deductions and how much the deductions were for the extra athletes. If those were added and they still tied then there was for sure an issue with the judging of what was in their routine because it wouldn't make sense at all.

 

[NorthDublinWildcats]

We all signed the same packet.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

The ICU pack is slighlty different as far as I can remember, and then international teams are given the option to compete IASF Worlds too. Nothing is said about altering routines for the other competition in the ICU pack.

 

[Deleted member 15]

My thing is though that Les said the people in the warm up room did not know that there should have been 12 on the mat and Bangkok was preparing to remove the extra team members. Those people then went to the book to make sure they were right about being able to use more then 12. How did they not know the rule already? If they would have known the rule then they wouldn't have stopped Bangkok from removing athletes from their team. I understand that the book can be used to check something and prove that it is in fact a rule, but if those that stopped Bangkok would have known the rule, which was known by 98% of the teams there, then this could have been avoided. I am still lost as to what was done to the other teams in warm ups that had the extra boys. Were they taking them off the team and told to stop? Or did the same person tell them that 15 was alright? I just feel like if I were back there and was paying attention I would realize how many of the teams only had 12 and realize that 12 must be the max number of guys.

I really just wish the scores and breakdowns would be posted so we could know for sure if Bangkok had the legality deductions and how much the deductions were for the extra athletes. If those were added and they still tied then there was for sure an issue with the judging of what was in their routine because it wouldn't make sense at all.

The books we were given for Worlds didn't have the age grid in it since it wasn't supposed to be something we were concerned about. (I'm saying we since I was one of the 5 rules people in the warmup room). When a team (prior to Bangkok) was warming up with more than 12 males one of the 5 rules people said something the the head warmup room person. Since the grid wasn't in our book the head person went to the USASF website which unfortunately doesn't list a 12 male limit for IOC6. We didn't know a limit was listed someplace else (which I still haven't actually seen in writing). We figured we were just taking something we knew for IOC5 and were applying it to IOC6 and shouldn't have been.

 

[Canadacj]

Hey Andre, it is in writing on page 3 of the Worlds Travel Package under the International Level 6 Divisions.
'International Open Coed - 17 years and older, 1-12 males, 5-24 members.'

 

[coachrah]

If they did it just so an International team will win (which I believe is partly true) then why did they also need to adjust the scoresheets for them as well? If they were going to ignore that scoresheet and still give them credit that is just silly. Those teams have to WORK for that win just like the US teams do. Those US teams didn't get where they are today by being given a free ride to first place.

That is what I have been saying. There should have been no way that you can take the IOC6 scoresheet and get that Bangkok should have scored the same as Gym Tyme. Gym Tyme and the other US Teams should have beat Bangkok in multiple categories. The pyramid can only score so high, and if those other teams did what needed to be done then they should have scored right there with Bangkok. Sure they did those amazing pyramids but it wasn't necessary to hit the max amount of point on the scoresheet. I believe it did mess up Top Gun's placement because I feel that they should have outscored Bangkok enough to place 2nd place right behind Gym Tyme. I just feel like they threw the scoresheet out the window for them and went with the crowd favorite.

Also since you had a team in the division have they given you a reason to why the scores and breakdowns have not been released?

Were the scores and breakdowns released in every other division?

 

[Deleted member 15]

Hey Andre, it is in writing on page 3 of the Worlds Travel Package under the International Level 6 Divisions.
'International Open Coed - 17 years and older, 1-12 males, 5-24 members.'

Thank you. Now I've seen it.