All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[ErinS]

@kingston and @GDaddyLS are both 100 percent correct on this issue. I was competing and when we got back stage in the hall way a girl made us stand in line and count each team member and alternates and coaches had to stand on the other side of the wall and not get in the count. Their pyramids were awesome, but you only can max out at 70 points (as per the scoresheet) for pyramids (so im wondering where the 280 they scored came from). Tumbling yes you did see "some" fulls and there were some round off back handsprings as well. Jumps to back did anyone miss the guy spotting another teammate in this section in the routine? watch the video..

Yeah I saw that little boost he gave him during jumpts to tuck as well...I always wondered if that was legal. Now I know...I suppose.

The round off backhandsprings I don't see the point in harping on them about that... call it a transition (like how every level uses front walkovers...) and keep it moving. I mean clearly they were just getting out of the way...

They shouldnt have won...because "an athlete is not crowned unless they compete according to the rules" (thanks South Carolina High School League).

I don't understand their score of 280 either...but all that being said... Deep down inside, I'm still happy they "won".

But we should make sure we offer them some indepth clarification for next year....

 

[kobegirl]

But was the tumbling coming from enough members of the team to fall into the 4-5pts range? The scoresheet states: "Most to all of performers attempting skill compared to number on the floor."

I counted 3 standing multiple to a tuck, 10 standing tucks (and 6 of those same guys did a standing tuck right before that), many tumbling ommissions, running tucks and running BHs, and 8 running fulls (only 1 was a combo and 1 went from corner to corner). I know they did 2 awesome pyramids, but how did they really get the numbers without better tumbling. Their tumbling improved, but not up to world's levels by far. Maybe I miscounted, or maybe the US should just concentrate on 2 pyramids lol

 

[cheer8]

im not referring to giving them a break, like screw the rules heres your rings, im saying give them a break like "i dont think bangkok purposefully broke the rules. im sure there was some sort of miscommunication somewhere"

I don't see miscommunication at all... They have been coming to Worlds and knew the rules then... Whats different now...Thats why you read your packet.
I guarantee when I took my international team to Worlds this year and if I had 13 guys on the team, I would be called out and DQ'd no questions about it (is that right for my team to get called out and not the crowd pleaser)? Integrity does not have sides that it takes...
and then I would not be allowed to participate in Worlds the following year and so on and so on- you know those rules! Thats exactly what should go on with this situation. Everyone says that there is no favoritism in the industry so we will see if there really is or not and this time it's not small gym/large gym drama, Thank you Jesus!...
I truly hope that USASF does something about this b/c I am in support of USASF... but we all know that people are upset at USASF for what ever past reasons. I hope this is not another set back
To the USASF- I sat there in the VIP banquet and listened to some inspiring things about ethics, Integrity and so on! I hope that in every situation wether it be bad or good that you will do what is said will be done to those who do not follow the rules!

Amen

 

[King]

@kingston and @GDaddyLS are both 100 percent correct on this issue. I was competing and when we got back stage in the hall way a girl made us stand in line and count each team member and alternates and coaches had to stand on the other side of the wall and not get in the count. Their pyramids were awesome, but you only can max out at 70 points (as per the scoresheet) for pyramids (so im wondering where the 280 they scored came from). Tumbling yes you did see "some" fulls and there were some round off back handsprings as well. Jumps to back did anyone miss the guy spotting another teammate in this section in the routine? watch the video. They know English trust me I had complete conversations with some of them. Rules are clearly Rules and If it were an american team in any division international or large or small senior or coed every would be up in arms and call them out on facebook, twitter and here. I'm all about a Cinderella story but when it is truly earned and warranted. There were a lot of "I don't get it" scores this weekend from the judges and I'm not so sure that everyone was following the score sheet. Their stunts had 3 people under some of them. I love love love their pyramids but a routine is bigger than just that section and if you max out then where else can you get points from if your not up to par in other sections? The USASF had to have counted them before they walked out on the floor in international nations cup (semi's for international teams) and Finals so I have to believe that they knew. I know they gave them a deduction for it that's why they tied with GT, which should have never happened in the first place but Deductions at Worlds mean nothing when you score a 280 and u have a 1 deduction is that really going to matter much look at the scores of people who won or got top 3 in any division that had deductions. NCA All Star Nationals you had better believe that Deductions place a huge roll in winning and losing or placings period. The Cheerleading Worlds Scoresheets need to be more balanced in every division focusing on the entire routine and the over all cheerleader and that would truly help true international teams. But yeah they need to do something because it's only going to get worse.

There isn't a deduction for having more boys. There is only DQ.

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[newcheerdad]

They had legitimate level 5 tumbling this year. I saw fulls (more than 1 person) being thrown, even had a synchro pass. Granted, they didn't have the numbers that GT had, but it definitely was correct level tumbling.

Exactly. It was actually the big thing that jumped out at me about them this year - the fact that their tumbling was a lot closer to being legitimately level 5 than in past years.

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[travnation80]

Yeah I saw that little boost he gave him during jumpts to tuck as well...I always wondered if that was legal. Now I know...I suppose.

The round off backhandsprings I don't see the point in harping on them about that... call it a transition (like how every level uses front walkovers...) and keep it moving. I mean clearly they were just getting out of the way...

They shouldnt have won...because "an athlete is not crowned unless they compete according to the rules" (thanks South Carolina High School League).

I don't understand their score of 280 either...but all that being said... Deep down inside, I'm still happy they "won".

But we should make sure we offer them some indepth clarification for next year....

I'm from South Carolina and I competed in the first Cheerleading State Championship back in the day so thank you for that reference of the League. I would agree with you on the backhandsprings but it clearly was not a transition at all lol front walk overs or back walkovers are usually used as a transition however in this case their back handsprings were in their tumbling seq and they performed the same routine for the ICU competition because i was there on friday and watched the entire thing and i competed again them in the International division and I saw that two and I they were in the warm up with us. I wanted them to win but not like this and when i found out at awards before they were calling placements it just put a bad taste in my mouth and as far as the language problem the international open coed 6 team from Puerto Rico had an illegal helicopter in their stunt seq and the USASF people called them on it in the warm up room in finals and i was standing right there waiting to warm up and watch that go down.

 

[travnation80]

There isn't a deduction for having more boys. There is only DQ.

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thats not what they told us during awards haha lol so someone is lying somewhere lol

 

[GDaddyLS]

It's USASFs job to enforce the rules. Cheer parents if it was your CPs team and they made illegal mistakes in their routine (lets assume unknowingly, because I like this team), then were crowned champions, then were stripped of their title...I have a feeling you would be fuming...at USASF for wronging your princess.

To me this isn't a right or wrong issue...it's obviously wrong if rules were broken. But what's even more wrong is that it wasn't caught and enforced by those responsible for enforcing the rules. Don't get mad at the team, get mad at the people in charge who, as it has been pointed out, had multiple opportunities to point out this mistake to them AT Worlds...not after.

As for the explanation USASF being "caught off guard" so to speak and not expecting an international team to be able to win/tie a US team and as far as them being to scared to enforce the rules to an international team....I don't necessarily agree with this theory but if it's the case... shame on them again. For real. I got mad even reading that. It's called WORLDS for a reason. How arrogant to be so surprised and frenzied when a team from another country can simply match one of "ours" to the point where you don't even know what to do.

You can blame them for signing papers without thoroughly reading them (umm hope you've also gotten mad at Congress throughout the years....) but ultimately your finger should be pointing at USASF. I couldn't be happier for this team and I don't think it's right for us to try to take this away from them for a mistake made by USASF of not being proactive and enforcing the rules at the appropriate time.

I'm hoping my comments didn't come across as arrogant with the implication being no international team should be good enough to contend or be as good or better than a US team... That was NEVER my intention with those comments.

If my team is legitimately beat in the majority of categories(i.e. all around) and we lose I will be the first to congratulate the winning team and you won't hear a peep out of me...

For the record the USASF DID inform Bangkok after prelims and Bangkok KNEW of the rule and decided to take whatever deduction would be given and keep their routine the same as they originally performed it.What I'm saying is the USASF had no precedent for any team International or US team saying OK yeah we know we're only allowed to have 12 boys but we're going to use 15 anyway and we will take whatever deduction you decide to give us. That's where my "hand in the cookie jar" comment came from.

I personally have NO ISSUE whatsoever with how good Bangkok has become and I certainly don't think the USASF has a problem with an international team being good enough to win either. Again, I'm saying the USASF had no precedent for a team knowingly putting too many guys on the floor and being good enough to win.

 

[newcheerdad]

To the point of Kingston's post -

I think that yes, it's unfortunate, and even a little embarrassing, that teams clearly violated the ioc 6 rule for worlds. The bigger problem I have, though, is why the rules are different between ICU, Worlds, and worlds bid giving competitions in the first place. Is it that hard to enforce a 12 males or less rule at every comp? Or just don't have the rule at all.

Stuff like this exasperates me when it comes to cheer. Soccer is way simpler.

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[cheer8]

Because they are from Thailand there was some sort of miscommunication? I guess it must be the same type of miscommunication that the Chinese women's gymnastics had at the last olympics with regard to their age. Maybe the Asian countries count a little differently than everyone else.

LOL

 

[King]

I'm hoping my comments didn't come across as arrogant with the implication being no international team should be good enough to contend or be as good or better than a US team... That was NEVER my intention with those comments.

If my team is legitimately beat in the majority of categories(i.e. all around) and we lose I will be the first to congratulate the winning team and you won't hear a peep out of me...

For the record the USASF DID inform Bangkok after prelims and Bangkok KNEW of the rule and decided to take whatever deduction would be given and keep their routine the same as they originally performed it.What I'm saying is the USASF had no precedent for any team International or US team saying OK yeah we know we're only allowed to have 12 boys but we're going to use 15 anyway and we will take whatever deduction you decide to give us. That's where my "hand in the cookie jar" comment came from.

I personally have NO ISSUE whatsoever with how good Bangkok has become and I certainly don't think the USASF has a problem with an international team being good enough to win either. Again, I'm saying the USASF had no precedent for a team knowingly putting too many guys on the floor and being good enough to win.

Care to take a picture and post the.final standings and break down from the division? That might help us.

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[Ashley]

@kingston and @GDaddyLS are both 100 percent correct on this issue. I was competing and when we got back stage in the hall way a girl made us stand in line and count each team member and alternates and coaches had to stand on the other side of the wall and not get in the count.

For what it's worth, my team was in IOC6 as well and they didn't do that for us.

 

[travnation80]

@GDaddyLS your absolutely right 100 percent. interesting thing is Kingston informed me that if you have to many guys (breaking the rules) you are suppose to be DQed so i'm wondering why they gave them a 5 point deduction for eat guy over the limit

I'm hoping my comments didn't come across as arrogant with the implication being no international team should be good enough to contend or be as good or better than a US team... That was NEVER my intention with those comments.

If my team is legitimately beat in the majority of categories(i.e. all around) and we lose I will be the first to congratulate the winning team and you won't hear a peep out of me...

For the record the USASF DID inform Bangkok after prelims and Bangkok KNEW of the rule and decided to take whatever deduction would be given and keep their routine the same as they originally performed it.What I'm saying is the USASF had no precedent for any team International or US team saying OK yeah we know we're only allowed to have 12 boys but we're going to use 15 anyway and we will take whatever deduction you decide to give us. That's where my "hand in the cookie jar" comment came from.

I personally have NO ISSUE whatsoever with how good Bangkok has become and I certainly don't think the USASF has a problem with an international team being good enough to win either. Again, I'm saying the USASF had no precedent for a team knowingly putting too many guys on the floor and being good enough to win.

 

[travnation80]

For what it's worth, my team was in IOC6 as well and they didn't do that for us.

really? I guess because we were the last team in Semis to go, but in finals they did not count us.

 

[Ashley]

really? I guess because we were the last team in Semis to go, but in finals they did not count us.

It's possible they counted us while we were warming up, we didn't have any alternates to confuse the count, just the 24 of us.