All-Star Usasf Rules Gurus - Please Read

[nlow]

I have another issue with this rule (not the rule itself) but I feel that this rule should go both ways: If athletes cannot compete on another world bound team without a release then the gym should not be able to boot athletes off of a team after NOV 1st simply because they think they have someone "better". Now in cases of injuries of course there should be a fill in (alternate) but that athlete should be able to get their spot back. If athletes should be held accountable then gym owners/coaches should be held accountable too. JMO

 

[Rudags]

I would say it's not. Many many many cheerleaders' goal is to go to Worlds. The gym we're in right now? Almost 200 kids and I'd bet 30 of them could even tell you what Worlds is. And probably only the parents of our Level 5 team members could tell you. The rest talk about Level 5 like it's some sort of other sport - "They're trying to win money or something...so they can go to Disney World." <---Yes, this is a real quote. So no, I would say "most" is inaccurate.



As for the original topic of this thread...I've debated on this for DAYS while following this thread. I'm sure I'm about to ruffle a few feathers and burn a bridge or 2, but at this point I don't care. I had my feathers more than a little ruffled over the last few months by some of these people anyway (and I'm sure the bridge was burned from both sides...).

I left the gym in discussion last summer in the middle of the summer. Are my kids level 5? Nope. So I wasn't worried about Worlds or anything else. Was I completely honest with the gym as to why I was leaving? Nope - quite frankly it was more drama than it would have been worth, so I claimes finances and left (we were having some money problems so not a total lie ) . But I'm sorry...there is NOT ONE PERSON who was at that gym the first few months of this season who couldn't see that there were problems. So I don't care if your kids are level 1, 5, or 352...if you didn't know there were problems before now, then you weren't paying attention. The whole thing was one big unorganized mess. And all of the things that are supposedly "coming to light" now were things anyone who was paying attention could have seen last summer. Certainly the people posting in this thread knew about them.

I had MANY people who I thought were my friends who were either very ugly to me, lied about me, or just outright acted like I didn't exist over the last few months since we left there. Not surprising in any way, but still hurtful.

So now that those same people are suddenly scrambling around trying to decide where to go and what to do, I'm sorry but I'm not feeling the least bit sorry for them. You had until NOVEMBER to decide!!! Like I said, my kids are nowhere near Worlds level athletes, but quite frankly if they were that's all the more reason I would have left sooner- so I wouldn't have the problem with the release now. A friend of mine said it best on her FB when she said "

People threw stones at me and spread lies about me. Because I had to make a choice for my family. Wish you the best and when you come up and talk to me I will turn my back on YOU so you can get your knife out of my back." ​

So no, I'm still sticking to my stance from last year about the rule (I was very vocal about it, but for those of you who weren't here I'm very much for the rule and I was one of the people who volunteered to be part of an appeals board *for free* for situations like the ICC situation). If you waited until now to see something that many, many, many, many people (did I mention it was many people) saw MONTHS ago then you have to reap what you have sown. There's a reason sooooooo many of us jumped ship last summer.

I also mentioned last year about this same time I believe that I thought coaches shouldn't be able to gym hop mid season either but everyone jumped on me and said they have to earn a living. Yes, but you shouldn't be leaving and taking half a gym with you mid-season, earning a living or not, which brings up the recruitment issue somewhat. If you work somewhere and are that unhappy, then go. But you don't get to take whole TEAMS with you and think that's cool. It's not. This isn't the only time I've seen this - I've seen it plenty of times, and I never agree with it. This all goes back to what we said last year - choose your gyms wisely. And if you even THINK you might change your mind you had better make that decision before comp season starts.

Just-a-Mom - I have to say your take on what you said is all valid points. I would like to share an analogy that I think portrays this information.

The people who knew the Titanic was sinking decided to make a jump into lifeboats and take others with them that didn't know what was happening. All the while, the captain of the Titanic calmly told everyone that they were okay. But behind the scenes, he was securing a lifeboat for himself, without any hesitation to the well being of other passengers. Now, before we make an argument that many of the life boats did not make it, I prepared lifeboats that are sturdier than the titanic and ran my captains that will refuse to let anyone drown that is willing to be rescued. No one is forcing anyone on the lifeboats - they are there if people choose to get in them. Guards on the Titanic put locks on gates so that the lower class passengers couldn't get onto a lifeboat, therefore, not releasing them. Well, as we saw on the movie, a few people fought hard enough and the passengers got released. Those people that were locked did nothing wrong except payed for what they thought they would receive - a nice experience on a 'cruise' if you will. Hopefully the passengers on the 'new lifeboat' can get released so they can be on a more stable 'cruise' the remainder of their time.

 

[SkyBlue]

I agree in theory with the purpose of the release, I am also totally against "gym hoppers". However, the release in its current form benefits nobody but the primary gym owner. There is nowhere on the release that provides for the parent/athlete to explain why they are leaving and a valid explanation must be a part of the process. You cannot expect parents/athletes to remain in instances where there are safety issues, there is no qualified level 5 coaching staff, etc. There are many valid reasons for having to pull athletes and search for somewhere else for their child to finish their season. Unfortunately there are unethical and immoral gym owners and the facts that come out, come out after significant investment in time and money. There are MANY changes that need to be made when allowing gyms to become members of the USASF. The fee to become a member gym should be doubled and FULL background checks should be completed before allowing just anyone to become a member. If they do not pass a full background check then a list should be provided on the USASF website, simply stating that "these facilities did not pass the strict guidelines for membership." or something along those lines. It would also become the responsibility of USASF member competition companies to NOT allow member gyms to register at USASF sanctioned competitions. There are plenty of rules in place to protect the athlete's safety while on the competition floor, but there is almost zero protection for the parents/athletes to know what kind of facility they are joining before it's to late.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

OK. UltimateRudags is aware of this, as we spoke yesterday. After I posted on this thread I lost my job. So I started caring a LOT LESS about releases etc. But now that I'm just sitting home with nowhere to go...I'll post again.

My thoughts: One, I think the owner of the original gym should NOT need to see/know/be aware/or care where the athlete is going. So I do think the rule needs a couple points clarified/fixed. I don't think it should give sole rights to the owner of the first gym with no way for the athlete to appeal - we said it last year and we're saying it again. There really needs to be a way to appeal. I also think that it should actually clarify that the owner of the first gym (the one the athlete is leaving) should have to sign it first, thereby eliminating their ability to "demand" to know where the athlete is going. Reason? Because sometimes the athlete is going somewhere that the old gym has "bad blood" with and then they refuse to sign it.

As for this particular case? I guess I just have my personal feelings about it (which mostly consist of "How the heck did you not see this until now???") and while I somewhat understand staying and wanting to "believe", I do think there was enough evidence to leave earlier. (And I get the Titanic example...but for the record the captain of the titanic went down with the ship)

 

[Rudags]

As for this particular case? I guess I just have my personal feelings about it (which mostly consist of "How the heck did you not see this until now???") and while I somewhat understand staying and wanting to "believe", I do think there was enough evidence to leave earlier. (And I get the Titanic example...but for the record the captain of the titanic went down with the ship)

EXACTLY!

I respect all of your opinions and the way you present them! Im glad to still call you a friend and hope many good things for you in the new year!!!

 

[Fiercechick91]

I believe that the 1st gym owner shouldn't sign you to release you unless in certain circumstances: If you are moving or you have a legit other reason. If you just want to leave to go to another gym cause they are better or if you want to go back to another gym cause your best friends there you shouldn't be able to after you compete with a gym. You have made a commitment to the team your on and should have to stay in it. You should know before the 1st competition if you are happy or not and want to leave. So i think in cases like this the gym owner should not release you because you committed to the team your on. I'm sure many of you will disagree with me but that's fine. Its my opinion

 

[ztaprincess]

I believe that the 1st gym owner shouldn't sign you to release you unless in certain circumstances: If you are moving or you have a legit other reason. If you just want to leave to go to another gym cause they are better or if you want to go back to another gym cause your best friends there you shouldn't be able to after you compete with a gym. You have made a commitment to the team your on and should have to stay in it. You should know before the 1st competition if you are happy or not and want to leave. So i think in cases like this the gym owner should not release you because you committed to the team your on. I'm sure many of you will disagree with me but that's fine. Its my opinion

It is possible for something to happen after your first competition to make you not want to be part of that program anymore. Things can happen at any time so saying that after your first competition you should know if you are happy doesn't always work. I agree for the most part that you would have a good idea of how well you like the gym by the first competition but it doesn't rule out that something could happen after.

 

[FierceandFearless]

It is possible for something to happen after your first competition to make you not want to be part of that program anymore. Things can happen at any time so saying that after your first competition you should know if you are happy doesn't always work. I agree for the most part that you would have a good idea of how well you like the gym by the first competition but it doesn't rule out that something could happen after.

ETA
Agreed. But the issue is, not everyone goes to the first competitions of the season, so it's not like we can just say, "You have to have your decision made by the first competition you compete at." :/ I think this rule would be a lot simpler if we could do it that way, but of course, we can't because it would end up being more complicated. Unless, the USASF made it so that you HAD to have one of your teams compete at one of the first competitions of the season, but then again, that would still make things complicated.
I hope that makes sense....

 

[debbie]

ETA
Agreed. But the issue is, not everyone goes to the first competitions of the season, so it's not like we can just say, "You have to have your decision made by the first competition you compete at." :/ I think this rule would be a lot simpler if we could do it that way, but of course, we can't because it would end up being more complicated. Unless, the USASF made it so that you HAD to have one of your teams compete at one of the first competitions of the season, but then again, that would still make things complicated.
I hope that makes sense....

i believe the rule is that "once you compete with a club" then you would need a release to go to another.

 

[FierceandFearless]

i believe the rule is that "once you compete with a club" then you would need a release to go to another.

Right, but what I meant to say was that if the rule was that you could make your final decision after you compete at the first competition (and have to have the decision made by the second competition) so that that way if something happens at your first competition that makes you unhappy with that program and that you no longer want to be with that program, that you still had the opportunity to change programs without having to do a release, however, that would be so complicated and upsetting to a lot of people, because routines would be changing way too often, and it would be way too stressful. I was merely just stating one of those "what if" thoughts.

 

[kristenthegreat]

ETA
Agreed. But the issue is, not everyone goes to the first competitions of the season, so it's not like we can just say, "You have to have your decision made by the first competition you compete at." :/ I think this rule would be a lot simpler if we could do it that way, but of course, we can't because it would end up being more complicated. Unless, the USASF made it so that you HAD to have one of your teams compete at one of the first competitions of the season, but then again, that would still make things complicated.
I hope that makes sense....

As of right now, the rule is (I believe) you need to make your decision by November 1st. Many teams have either had their first competition by then, or have at the very least showcased..There are a few who haven't, I'm sure, but you figure most of those athletes aren't on worlds teams/gyms. Heck, the first bid competition is in mid-November, so it really can't be any later. While I'm sure something horrible can occur by then, most horrible things should be appealed- unsafe practices, complete gym disbandment, objectionable behavior, etc. Quite frankly, all things that would destroy a gym, never mind make you not want to compete on that team..

 

[slapclapdip]

The rule comes very close to being considered the trafficking of kids.

 

[shadow]

The rule comes very close to being considered the trafficking of kids.

Please elaborate, I am having difficulty making the connection.

 

[FierceandFearless]

As of right now, the rule is (I believe) you need to make your decision by November 1st. Many teams have either had their first competition by then, or have at the very least showcased..There are a few who haven't, I'm sure, but you figure most of those athletes aren't on worlds teams/gyms. Heck, the first bid competition is in mid-November, so it really can't be any later. While I'm sure something horrible can occur by then, most horrible things should be appealed- unsafe practices, complete gym disbandment, objectionable behavior, etc. Quite frankly, all things that would destroy a gym, never mind make you not want to compete on that team..

I understand what the rule was, I was merely just thinking out loud honestly. I understand why the rule is set the way it is and everything, because of the comps and worlds, etc. Thanks for your input though. You do make some good points. Much respect

 

[kristenthegreat]

I understand what the rule was, I was merely just thinking out loud honestly. I understand why the rule is set the way it is and everything, because of the comps and worlds, etc. Thanks for your input though. You do make some good points. Much respect

S'all good..I was thinking out loud a bit myself. Although I seem to keep repeating myself lol