We Don't Do That In Cheer.....sorry
- Thread starter TheCheerDiamond
- Start date
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- Dec 11, 2011
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Well, you might want to try a cheer gym. This just happened for me recently: I've been at a gymnastics gym for a year. I'm a very fast learner, I've been a pretty smart kid (academically and with athletic progression) and I had been working on my front handspring step out for a year at the gymnastics gym, and it took me five minutes of trying to get it at the cheer gym. I don't know why the cheer gym was so much more effective. If you love cheer as much as I do, and if you like that kind of environment with the same kinds of people like I do, then I say you go ahead and tumble at a cheer gym.
- Dec 16, 2010
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They didn't "correct" your tumbling.....they changed it to "chuck it tumbling".
- Dec 16, 2010
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Which results in janky, ugly tumbling and major injuries.
- Mar 30, 2013
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- Thread starter
- #22
- May 7, 2013
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I don't agree with you at all. At my gym All of our technique is exactly the same at gymnastics. The only difference really is usually the entrance into tumbling and the way it's finished. If a gymnast and a cheerleader both did a round off back hand spring tuck, side by side, they should look basically the same. If you learned to just "chuck" you're tumbling, you learned it wrong.
- Mar 23, 2010
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- #24
But mostly
- Mar 30, 2013
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- Thread starter
- #25
- Jan 15, 2012
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Ideally, gymnastics and cheer tumbling technique shouldn't vary all that much.
The one notable exception is standing tumbling, especially standing tucks. Gymnasts are taught to keep their center or gravity lower in standing tucks, resulting in them rotating closer to the point of take off. The reason for this is that they are being trained to land accurately on a 4 inch beam. The higher the tuck, the greater the margin of error for the landing.
As for the OP's example - A pike is indeed a logical step in the progression from tuck to layout. A tuck rotates much faster than a layout. This is because bringing the body into a tuck position speeds up the rotation of skill. If you need proof, you can research angular momentum, and rotational inertia, but a much more fun experiment would be to spin in a computer chair, then alternate between tucking your knees, and opening back up. Note the effects of tucking your knees!
Anyways, one of the biggest things I see in kids first starting their layouts is that they throw their head back, or pike down. I believe that this is their instinctual way of trying to rotate, because they are not used to the slower rotation of a layout. I also believe that many times, it is due to a lack of core strength. The amount of strength needed to keep the body straight and rotate is insane, when compared to that needed for a tuck. (try holding a hollow position on the ground with arms up vs. down, and you will see how an increased length of a level can have tremendous effects.)
A pike is the middle ground between the two. It lets you begin to open the body, building strength and awareness in the air. As you become stronger from repetitions of pikes, you will be able to open more and more.
Anyways, that's just my two cents. Enjoy.
-Matt Faherty
The one notable exception is standing tumbling, especially standing tucks. Gymnasts are taught to keep their center or gravity lower in standing tucks, resulting in them rotating closer to the point of take off. The reason for this is that they are being trained to land accurately on a 4 inch beam. The higher the tuck, the greater the margin of error for the landing.
As for the OP's example - A pike is indeed a logical step in the progression from tuck to layout. A tuck rotates much faster than a layout. This is because bringing the body into a tuck position speeds up the rotation of skill. If you need proof, you can research angular momentum, and rotational inertia, but a much more fun experiment would be to spin in a computer chair, then alternate between tucking your knees, and opening back up. Note the effects of tucking your knees!
Anyways, one of the biggest things I see in kids first starting their layouts is that they throw their head back, or pike down. I believe that this is their instinctual way of trying to rotate, because they are not used to the slower rotation of a layout. I also believe that many times, it is due to a lack of core strength. The amount of strength needed to keep the body straight and rotate is insane, when compared to that needed for a tuck. (try holding a hollow position on the ground with arms up vs. down, and you will see how an increased length of a level can have tremendous effects.)
A pike is the middle ground between the two. It lets you begin to open the body, building strength and awareness in the air. As you become stronger from repetitions of pikes, you will be able to open more and more.
Anyways, that's just my two cents. Enjoy.
-Matt Faherty
- Jan 5, 2011
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...yes, that's @MissBee 's point. I don't mean to speak for her but I'm 99% sure she wasn't saying chucking tumbling was a good thing.
Like you said - watch a cheerleader and a gymnast tumble side by side. It should look the same, like you said, but it almost never does. Two examples that come to mind: Cheerleaders almost always frog their legs in bhs, and almost never fully tuck their legs in a tuck (it's more like a layout with bent knees - which is why a layout is an easier progression for them than a pike, because their torso/core is already in a layout position. Just ftr this is not a good thing)
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- Jan 5, 2011
- 5,960
- 21,288
Sorry. Double post. 
CheerBank
Cheer Parent
- May 7, 2012
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I love the way @Matt Faherty always takes the time to post well thought out and extremely informative responses to questions. Anytime there is a thread about tumbling technique or skill progression and I read his input, I am reminded of just how lucky we are to have the input of coaches on here who really care about what they are doing with their athletes and want to help others achieve their goals. Thank you Matt!
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