All-Star Worlds 2012 Deductions...

[Deleted member 15]

CEA small senior had only .5 in deductions.

Looking at the video I don't know why 2 weren't called other than 1 being missed. Did anyone have more than one OOB called?

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

[quote="hercheerness, post: 363532 but maybe a competition like the world championships should be open to only the very top teams in each division. that is the only way to have judges with fresh, excited, careful eyes.[/quote]

I personally consider Worlds to be pretty much the only true Nationals. Obviously with the exception of the international divisions, and even then they are still basically having a Nationals competition on Saturday...

 

[Deleted member 15]

i really feel for ya.....but how is each team guaranteed to be judged fairly and legitimately under these conditions.....especially in those divisions with over 30 teams. yes, you are human. yes you do a great job. but maybe a competition like the world championships should be open to only the very top teams in each division. that is the only way to have judges with fresh, excited, careful eyes.

That's a good question. The judges at Worlds are very good and very experienced. Many have done several events with long days, NCA being a prime example, so this isn't something new to them. Is it ideal? No, but is the best plan we have right now. The ways I can think of to solve this are 1 - Significantly reduce the number of teams at Worlds, which will upset several gyms and many fans, 2 - Increase the number of judging panels, which will negatively impact the quality of judges. Are there other options? Which option is the best?

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

That's a good question. The judges at Worlds are very good and very experienced. Many have done several events with long days, NCA being a prime example, so this isn't something new to them. Is it ideal? No, but is the best plan we have right now. The ways I can think of to solve this are 1 - Significantly reduce the number of teams at Worlds, which will upset several gyms and many fans, 2 - Increase the number of judging panels, which will negatively impact the quality of judges. Are there other options? Which option is the best?

Two judging panels judging simultaneously and average the score?

 

[ztaprincess]

That's a good question. The judges at Worlds are very good and very experienced. Many have done several events with long days, NCA being a prime example, so this isn't something new to them. Is it ideal? No, but is the best plan we have right now. The ways I can think of to solve this are 1 - Significantly reduce the number of teams at Worlds, which will upset several gyms and many fans, 2 - Increase the number of judging panels, which will negatively impact the quality of judges. Are there other options? Which option is the best?

I know that the ICU takes up some time on Friday, but if they continue doing the Prelims, Semi, and Finals route for divisions that have so many teams, would it be possible to hold that Prelim round on Friday to cut down on the amount of teams on Saturday so the judges have less teams to go through that day.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Two judging panels judging simultaneously and average the score?

Right now each category has 3 people scoring. Are you looking for more people to score or more separation among the people scoring?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I know that the ICU takes up some time on Friday, but if they continue doing the Prelims, Semi, and Finals route for divisions that have so many teams, would it be possible to hold that Prelim round on Friday to cut down on the amount of teams on Saturday so the judges have less teams to go through that day.

Send this suggestion to the USASF.

 

[lolsmileyface_backAGAIN]

Have to say it, Smiley... REALLY wish you weren't back again.

not looking to please you buddy.

 

[Jennaw]

or when a judge does not recognize illegalities...

judge 1: " ehh i dont know whether that was illegal or not? "
judge 2: " well idk either, i did not see a single thing, i was looking at the cool backdrop "
judge 1: " lets just give the max points, because it looked pretty cool "
judge 2: " sounds good! , wait should we contact the head person of cheerleading rules to find out instead? "
judge 1: " well before he let stuff go and said they would only receive a small deduction, so lets not bother him. "
judge 2: " yeah, its good to let things slide by when theres a small language barrier "
judge 1: " wait, who was judging the rest of that routine? "
judge 2: " hmm, neither of us!, lets just score them like a high ranking team did, they prob were just as good "
judge 1: " great idea! "

i wouldnt be surprised if some of this conversation has happened before between the people we call our "judges" !

Obviously you know nothing about the scoring system....
Panel judges do not call deductions or legalities.
Their only job is to score the routine, and at most competitions, ignore deductions so that they can score the routine fairly without "double whammying" the team for a deduction on the panel score sheet.
Learn about what your upset about before making comments about something you have no clue about.

And about the comment you made earlier, If "as long as we get that paycheck" was true.... I would have quit judging years ago.

 

[lolsmileyface_backAGAIN]

Obviously you know nothing about the scoring system....
Panel judges do not call deductions or legalities.
Their only job is to score the routine, and at most competitions, ignore deductions so that they can score the routine fairly without "double whammying" the team for a deduction on the panel score sheet.
Learn about what your upset about before making comments about something you have no clue about.

And about the comment you made earlier, If "as long as we get that paycheck" was true.... I would have quit judging years ago.

k

 

[ztaprincess]

Send this suggestion to the USASF.

Not sure they will listen since i'm not a coach, athlete, or gym owner (just a fan/supporter) but I will try and send it their way.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Not sure they will listen since i'm not a coach, athlete, or gym owner (just a fan/supporter) but I will try and send it their way.

They can't listen if you don't tell them.

 

[Num1Stunta]

I don't think these issues are due to flawed judges, they are due to a flawed SYSTEM. There should be more line judges, and there shouldn't be 14 hr days with limited breaks. Even the most well-trained eyes are going to miss things once you get to that point. For a big event such as worlds, when the USASF is making thousands of dollars, I don't think it would really break the bank to add more judges to the event so that all of the judges can take a reasonable break.

No one should be working more than 8 hours total, and no more than 4 at a time. I would suggest 2 groups, each doing 3hrs judging, 2 hr break, 3 hrs judging... one group starts the day and the other group finishes the day. Arrange the schedule so that each division is scored by the same exact people.

Shazam! Why aren't I in charge of these things?

 

[hopskipandjump]

not just at worlds, but also at any "national"; if there are more than say 10 teams in a division (this is just a random number, not sure where the break would be), its almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a division scored perfectly. As a coach, I certainly understand this. At Worlds however, something has got to change. Too much is riding on this event. Gyms staying open for example.

 

[SharkDad]

I don't think these issues are due to flawed judges, they are due to a flawed SYSTEM. There should be more line judges, and there shouldn't be 14 hr days with limited breaks. Even the most well-trained eyes are going to miss things once you get to that point. For a big event such as worlds, when the USASF is making thousands of dollars, I don't think it would really break the bank to add more judges to the event so that all of the judges can take a reasonable break.

No one should be working more than 8 hours total, and no more than 4 at a time. I would suggest 2 groups, each doing 3hrs judging, 2 hr break, 3 hrs judging... one group starts the day and the other group finishes the day. Arrange the schedule so that each division is scored by the same exact people.

Shazam! Why aren't I in charge of these things?

USASF is not making money off of this. They use Worlds revenue to fund all of the programs they run all year and put on next year's Worlds.

Their budget is posted on the website