All-Star Worlds Age Change???

[AndyT_T]

I hope I don’t receive any negative ratings for this, but a current well-decorated team I can see being greatly affected by these changes would be Cheer Athletics’ Cheetahs.

I know that team receives A LOT of negative criticism on Twitter for their flyers to bases-size ratio, but they’re doing everything within the rules; don’t hate the player, hate the game.

I find it funny that people always bring up the size of their flyers, because in acrobatics gymnastics, the top person tends to be half the size of the bases . Either that, or there’s a very clear small-medium-large thing going on for the pyramid building routines.

In acro gymnastics if there is a big size difference you get a deduction actually. Usually people with a large size difference have a much higher difficulty to try to make up for starting with a penalty and pairs/trios that are evenly sized rely on technique and execution to make up for having a lower difficulty since you can't launch the top and do as crazy of things as much when evenly sized.

 

[Keep_Believing]

A little off topic, but love this!

In honor of the first day of NCA Month, we are excited to share that scores WILL be posted at NCA All-Star Nationals 2018! Fans will see both the raw scores and final scores with deductions in the results posted on Varsity TV.

 

[AndyT_T]

I would be interested to see if the age moving to 14 makes the XS (edit: and R5/J5) divisions grow exponentially. There are a TON of small gym level 5 teams with 4 stunt groups and tiny tiny flyers who don't tumble and I bet an age raise would push them to having flyers roughly their age and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these teams had to drop to 12-15 people in order to be able to hit difficult enough stunts.

Honestly I see that as a good thing.

Edit: Also I'm calling it now, if this bracket change happens I think that in the coming seasons we will start to see see those extra 2 athletes in each division being used as front spots here and there to keep stunts up... Like it will start with them just being used sporadically to make the shakiest part of the stunt hit and then more and more they'll be incorporated into the whole stunt.

 

[luv2cheer92]

A little off topic, but love this!

In honor of the first day of NCA Month, we are excited to share that scores WILL be posted at NCA All-Star Nationals 2018! Fans will see both the raw scores and final scores with deductions in the results posted on Varsity TV.

This is great! I was able to work a little magic to get the scores for everybody last year, but I'm glad I won't have to do that again haha.

 

[FamUsM0m]

My daughter is a great base. Her cheer age is 12. She is working her double. It probably isn’t feasible at this point to base a 12-13 year old girl. So the only way she will get on a worlds team is probably when she’s older/stronger like 15-16 and the flyers are comparably smaller than she is.
Also I have lot of friends who’s daughters fly and are like 9-11 years old and amazing- both in tumbling and stunting. My daughter has no issue basing level 4-5 with them. It’s sad to me that they will have to wait years more to get on a worlds team. Talk about killing a potential pipeline - being on jr5R, srR5 or j5 for 4+ years. I don’t see a lot of them sticking with it long term.

Skills are one thing, maturity is a whole different animal.

 

[FamUsM0m]

I never did all star but here's my 2 cents

I know that a good amount of all star kids do college cheer afterwards, and if they do increase the age to 14, this means that on both sides (all girl and coed), they'll have to base bigger girls, and this is good prep for college cheer. I have heard of people coming off all star basing smaller girls and being hit with a brick when they have to base someone who is 18-22 and fully developed. This can only be good for kids trying to aim for college cheer.

Amen! I said the same thing! My cp's flyer is her size (my avi) and she said she's heavy but she'd prefer to base her over someone tiny (body control, better lines, etc.) She's a senior this year and isn't that big herself. She would be considered a "normal sized" flyer on a college team. But, because she has had the experience basing "normal sized" flyers, she could do either in college.

 

[AndyT_T]

Technically the highest level is level 6, which has no age cap.

Yeah but they've been consistently whittling away at level 6 for years now. Part of me thinks non spinning flips that start at prep level or below (IE rewinds to load and front flip cradles) should be incorporated into level 5 sometime soon and that doing so would actually encourage level 6 participation, but part of me also thinks that it would be detrimental to the level.

Like the skill progression would make sense: Level 3 - suspended rolls with two arm connections and "flips" with 1 brace and one arm connection, Level 4 - suspended rolls with one arm connection and flips with two braces, R5 - flips with one brace, Level 5 - spinning flips with one brace and flips that start and end at prep level or below with no brace, Level 6 - flipping transitions to the top, spinning flipping dismounts, and trick - spin flipping baskets with no connection.

In my mind that would better prepare level 5 kids to transition to level 6. Right now Level 5 stunts and Level 6 stunts are barely different, but there is a HUGE skill gap for baskets and pyramids with no skill progressions and I think it deters gyms from fielding a team. Going from doing kick doubles for years and then being expected to do a pike doubles or arabian 1 1/2s (especially if you're a flyer who doesn't tumble) is an insane leap in skills. I think after a few seasons with new flip rules we would start to see more and more people in level 6 actually hitting their rewinds at the top and doing spinning flipping dismounts/baskets that are level appropriate because the kids doing them have been trained on the basics of the skill in L5 instead of being thrown to the wolves. Flyers leaving level 5 would have experience doing front and back fulls in pyramids and doing level 6 mounts and dismounts do prep level which would be a really good foundation for level 6 teams and colleges to build from.

Edit: I think another good way to encourage level 6 participation would be to allow a gym to field an XS5 team and a level 6 team at worlds. There are a ton of small gyms that should be XS who have an international team because of nearby colleges, and there is virtually no athlete pool overlap because of the bottom age requirement for level 6. I was really disappointed when XS was announced that they didn't make an exception for level 6, especially if XS is supposed to be beneficial to small gyms.

Sorry this is off topic, but this lecture is killing me and I'm just trying to stay conscious.

 

[naaans]

My CP is on a youth team and the whole team is within a year in age. They practice as a team, they play as a team, they compete as a team and they hang out outside of the gym as a team. We have 12 year olds on junior and senior teams, and those girls never really fit in anywhere as a “team”. Sure they have friends, but when you’re mixing 12 year olds and 16/17/18 year olds, there isn’t much in common other than they can throw the same skills. The point is, why rush these kids into things they mentally may not be ready for? The 12 year olds end up feeling isolated wishing they were back on the youth team with their friends.
A lot of comments are about getting to worlds and having to wait until they get older. So what! If worlds is supposed to be so prestigious, than why should everyone be able to get there at any time. I think it would give the kids something more to work hard for and look forward to rather than saying at 12 I made it to worlds so now it’s ok to quit because I already experienced the best of the best. Everyone shouldn’t be able to make it to worlds, that’s what makes it so exciting. Let the mini, youth and JR teams look up to the senior teams - it’s hard to do that when the girls are younger than them.


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[catlady]

In acro gymnastics if there is a big size difference you get a deduction actually. Usually people with a large size difference have a much higher difficulty to try to make up for starting with a penalty and pairs/trios that are evenly sized rely on technique and execution to make up for having a lower difficulty since you can't launch the top and do as crazy of things as much when evenly sized.

@DancerDude0118

BUT, it's 30 cm (a foot), and that's a substantial size difference allowance. After a girl hits 5 feet, they say you can add 5 lbs for every inch, that would be on average a 60 lb difference allowance if they were a lean but muscular gymnastics build.

 

[AndyT_T]

@DancerDude0118

BUT, it's 30 cm (a foot), and that's a substantial size difference allowance. After a girl hits 5 feet, they say you can add 5 lbs for every inch, that would be on average a 60 lb difference allowance if they were a lean but muscular gymnastics build.

True, but the tops are being based by one or (at max) two people not three. And even still I think a foot height difference or 60 lbs sounds like a lot, but if you watch when worlds teams set their flyers out after the double theres almost always a big difference between flyer and backspot. I don't think a foot or more is uncommon in cheer, especially in coed divisions where you're trying to get a 13/14 year old boy to coed stunt unassisted.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

A little off topic, but love this!

In honor of the first day of NCA Month, we are excited to share that scores WILL be posted at NCA All-Star Nationals 2018! Fans will see both the raw scores and final scores with deductions in the results posted on Varsity TV.

Will this be for all levels or just Worlds teams?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Will this be for all levels or just Worlds teams?

All levels. At least I don't see why it wouldn't be.

 

[catlady]

True, but the tops are being based by one or (at max) two people not three. And even still I think a foot height difference or 60 lbs sounds like a lot, but if you watch when worlds teams set their flyers out after the double theres almost always a big difference between flyer and backspot. I don't think a foot or more is uncommon in cheer, especially in coed divisions where you're trying to get a 13/14 year old boy to coed stunt unassisted.

No doubt, I don't disagree, but they push those height differences to the millimeter to optimize their partner groups. Many of All Star coed boys fall into the 5'8"-5'10" range, so to have a girl 4'8"-4'10" makes sense. I think in terms of it being the ultimate human physics game. You want to optimize your ability to toss, hold, and catch with the least amount of impact. Forget about it just being better for your joints, you are able to regain the ability to throw the next skill faster and with more force if the catch has lower impact.

 

[alpaca]

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Let the mini, youth and JR teams look up to the senior teams - it’s hard to do that when the girls are younger than them.


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I had never really put this thought into words, but I completely agree. I have always been in favor of tighter age divisions. Even though we are at a small gym and it would affect us. There are a few 10 year old's on senior teams at CP's old gym and every picture I see they are sitting in the laps of the older girls. That's not a dynamic I can see my CP aspiring to.

 

[california cheer mom]

My biggest hope, whatever the changes are, is that they phase any age changes to senior in by 1 year increments. When the change came last year ny 10 year old was crushed that she wouldn't be senior eligible. And wouldn't be until she turned 12. That ended up being reversed but it was after try outs and after teams were formed. We may have made different decisions based on that change not going through.