All-Star Cheerleaders Season 3: Version 2

[Keep_Believing]

There is also a thread on comparative scoring:

Comparative Scoring | Fierce Board - The Voice Of Cheer

 

[TheVipersMom]

I have heard it only effects you when you are up against more than 10 teams. Curious, so far how many teams have you gone against at one comp.?

I heard that yes when doing more than 10 teams it gets harder and harder to comparatively score them since you are comparing everyone and I agree.

But everyone keeps saying if you go first they won't give you perfect difficulty scores because they have to be able to score people in front of you and behind you if they are better or worse so you kind of get middle of the line and that isn't true!!

And outside of NCA nationals most divisions don't generally have 10 so it's a non issue unless bids are on the line for whole levels which there is always way more than 10 per level

 

[Keep_Believing]

I heard that yes when doing more than 10 teams it gets harder and harder to comparatively score them since you are comparing everyone and I agree.

But everyone keeps saying if you go first they won't give you perfect difficulty scores because they have to be able to score people in front of you and behind you if they are better or worse so you kind of get middle of the line and that isn't true!!

In the overstretch video (if I remember right) @King recommended doing that, but the other guys felt like you should score based on your experience judging / what that specific routine deserves.

 

[Mo' Bettah]

On Day 2 one of the bases had to be replaced because she was so drugged up from the night before.

I was told this from a World's Parent.

NEVERMIND! KING TOOK CARE OF IT

 

[Mo' Bettah]

"A" team doesn't always equal the team an athlete may want.

Allstar cheer does NOT always put every kid on "A" team. some gyms just take what they need and have kids that don't make it on any team.

 

[Sharkie]

[QUOTE="Sharkie, post: 970417, member: 8431"

I did attend a camp this summer with several smoed kids, eddie , orby and John. What most shocked me was to see how some kids travelled from far just to sit on a bench on the side to watch and to giggle if one of the smoeds looked at them/spoke to them. untill the moment you could take pictures and they went all crazy talking tons of pictures with their "idols".

I'm curious what the future will bring and if all this madness will finally come to a stop.

Did the kids voluntarily sit so they could watch the Smoed kids or did the camp staff tell the kids just sit there and not allow them to participate?


**It is obvious you misunderstood me**[/QUOTE]

they voluntarily sat there. i'm not saying it was a bad camp, I did learn some new things I could do with my kids. But I had a simular feeling as when I took my niece to go see some Boyband: coming in late, doing a quick demo, short explanation of basic techniques, time to take pictures.
But at least this camp had the coaches explaining stuff. I know several (past)members doing camps as well in the USA and Europe on their own, charging about 80$ for 2 hours. That to me is kinda disturbing, since 1) they are not trained coaches 2) some of them are still minors 3)I know decent trained coaches who charge the same for a whole day.
I heard others who attended those camps, asking a question about a technique why they should do so or so and the reply was: oh I dont know, my coach told me to do it like that.

I had a strong feeling they were using their fame gained from the show.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Did the kids voluntarily sit so they could watch the Smoed kids or did the camp staff tell the kids just sit there and not allow them to participate?


**It is obvious you misunderstood me**

they voluntarily sat there. i'm not saying it was a bad camp, I did learn some new things I could do with my kids. But I had a simular feeling as when I took my niece to go see some Boyband: coming in late, doing a quick demo, short explanation of basic techniques, time to take pictures.
But at least this camp had the coaches explaining stuff. I know several (past)members doing camps as well in the USA and Europe on their own, charging about 80$ for 2 hours. That to me is kinda disturbing, since 1) they are not trained coaches 2) some of them are still minors 3)I know decent trained coaches who charge the same for a whole day.
I heard others who attended those camps, asking a question about a technique why they should do so or so and the reply was: oh I dont know, my coach told me to do it like that.

I had a strong feeling they were using their fame gained from the show.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant they came from all over and just to watch the Smoed kids and were not told by the staff to just sit down.


**It is obvious you misunderstood me**

 

[quitthedrama]

I have heard it only effects you when you are up against more than 10 teams. Curious, so far how many teams have you gone against at one comp.?

For bid comps it is not just the division you need to be concerned with. If there are 8 all girl teams, 6 medium all girl teams and 2 large all girl teams all going for 1 bid they are all being judged comparatively for the bid. Some bid declarations have the bid go to the top 2 highest scores, regardless of division, so if there are 40 teams going for 2 bids, all 40 teams are being scored comparatively. Makes it very difficult to be in contention if you are one of the first teams on the mat.

 

[CEAShelby]

It's all officially cancelled. Wonder what the contract entailed.

 

[Sharkie]

they voluntarily sat there. i'm not saying it was a bad camp, I did learn some new things I could do with my kids. But I had a simular feeling as when I took my niece to go see some Boyband: coming in late, doing a quick demo, short explanation of basic techniques, time to take pictures.
But at least this camp had the coaches explaining stuff. I know several (past)members doing camps as well in the USA and Europe on their own, charging about 80$ for 2 hours. That to me is kinda disturbing, since 1) they are not trained coaches 2) some of them are still minors 3)I know decent trained coaches who charge the same for a whole day.
I heard others who attended those camps, asking a question about a technique why they should do so or so and the reply was: oh I dont know, my coach told me to do it like that.

I had a strong feeling they were using their fame gained from the show.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant they came from all over and just to watch the Smoed kids and were not told by the staff to just sit down.


**It is obvious you misunderstood me**[/QUOTE]
lol you obviously misunderstood me. (not native english speaker) there were several kids participating but also other kids that just came there to sit and watch smoed, after the camp take pictures and beg for tshirts.

 

[King]

In the overstretch video (if I remember right) @King recommended doing that, but the other guys felt like you should score based on your experience judging / what that specific routine deserves.

The biggest issue with scoring comparative is the reason comparative exists is to correctly distance teams with difficulty from each other. You MIGHT be able to get the placements right looking at teams you have never seen compete before with comparative, but you cannot get the scores and distances right because you are having to predict how good a team is.

If you get the placements right can you get the scores wrong? Yes.

If you get the scores right can you get the placements wrong? No.

Then it is important to focus on a system that gets the scores right.

The only way comparative works is if you watch everyone then go back and score them. And no one wants to do that.

 

[cheermomforever]

Not to hijack this thread but this is just my personal thought on this particular topic. I am not agreeing with one teams score over the other just offering insight. As you said SE may very well have outscored on technique on day 1. The point spread falls to creativity and difficulty. In regards to difficulty I could see a judge looking at the two side by side and saying that F5 is harder due to the fact that all nine groups are doing the same hard stunt while SE breaks there's up and five groups do one thing and four do another etc. Also while SE has a visual aspect to it, it is a lot of repetition of the same skills throughout while 5 is individual different elements. Also just another thought, most judges as larger worlds bid events have most likely judged big events before. This is most likely not their first event ever and they're awarding a bid. In that thought process it is theoretically possible that judges are a bit biased and may say "meh it's the same formula for a sequence senior elite has been doing for years" and thus not find it nearly as creative. Again that is just a thought not me agreeing with the idea. Lastly, I do think there are something's that judges have formulated and are expecting to see in order to get scored well even with the comparative scoring. As an example, my senior 2 has scored VERY well all three competitions this season so far. We have had comments on our opening raving how much it is loved every performance. We do an asymmetrical opening with things going on various places on the floor. F5 also does this and they're scoring very well. I have seen quite a few teams doing it. Meanwhile, this is the year SE has gone to a traditional routine format (standing, stunt, jumps, running, basket, pyramid, dance). No second sequence and not ending in a pyramid. I may very well be that opening out of the box sets the stage for higher scores in the judges mind. Just my personal opinion.

Your comment ends with the real truth. "Just my personal opinion". And that is how some teams at times are scored. Same as us as a small gym are already a notch down before competing against a lg one. Judging will never b 100% fair or make everyone happy. Not directing this at past weekend comp specifically.

 

[SL&AM]

Allstar cheer does NOT always put every kid on "A" team. some gyms just take what they need and have kids that don't make it on any team.

I realize that, but the person I quoted alluded to it being a violation of USASF to not put a kid on a team if they try-out.

 

[SL&AM]

Looks like T is having her baby on the 10th via c/s, I don't envy her one bit there. Interesting to see that Cheerhab is going to continue though.

 

[amy1k]

Looks like T is having her baby on the 10th via c/s, I don't envy her one bit there. Interesting to see that Cheerhab is going to continue though.

I think Cheerhab is a great show. I'm trying to think of ways it could go wrong, but can't come up with any. They visit random gyms for just a few episodes, right? Not long enough to get personally attached to any of the kids or any real drama to form. I like the idea of peeking in to "regular" gyms and teams.