All-Star Summit Bid Winners 2016

[SL&AM]

As a Parent at a D2 gym, I don't think its a matter or "not believing in yourself" for a gym to decide to go D2. It's having realistic expectations and putting your kids in the best position to succeed. Is it not believing in yourself for a 1A football team to compete in the correct division for their size rather than attempting to compete with 7A schools? There is no way a gym of 80 kids should be competing with a gym of 300+ except in the rarest of circumstances where the talent in the gym warrants it.

I think competitions should be required to split D1 and D2 teams. The current system encourages mega gyms to come into small competitions and sweep all the divisions because when they are the only large gym, there is no split. The EP makes more money that way, and the gym gets to say they were first place, so it continues. There is a reason schools are divided into divisions by size for sports. A 1A school with 400 students cannot compete with a 7A school of 4000.

I'm not suggesting that a gym going D2 is because 'they didn't believe in themselves,' if you read what @123jump4! wrote she said why shouldn't a team who got a D2 bid then think "Well maybe we are good enough for D1 and go for that..." That is what my reference was too. I have no qualms with gyms deciding to be D2 from the start, what I disagree with is being able to go for D2 and then deciding to go for D1 later.

ETA: If larger programs only have one option, then I think all gyms should only have one option. Decide at the beginning, adjust for future seasons. As long as large programs can't go back and forth, small programs shouldn't either.

 

[123jump4!]

I'm not suggesting that a gym going D2 is because 'they didn't believe in themselves,' if you read what @123jump4! wrote she said why shouldn't a team who got a D2 bid then think "Well maybe we are good enough for D1 and go for that..." That is what my reference was too. I have no qualms with gyms deciding to be D2 from the start, what I disagree with is being able to go for D2 and then deciding to go for D1 later.

Why though? Maybe they don't realize from the start of the season how good they are. I think it's fine to "upgrade" from D2 to D1. I would have more of a problem with the other way around. A small gym who won a D1 summit bid then thinking "hold on, we're not going to win regular summit, let's go for a D2 bid instead". But whatever, I wouldn't blame them for that either really.

 

[SL&AM]

Why though? Maybe they don't realize from the start of the season how good they are. I think it's fine to "upgrade" from D2 to D1. I would have more of a problem with the other way around. A small gym who won a D1 summit bid then thinking "hold on, we're not going to win regular summit, let's go for a D2 bid instead". But whatever, I wouldn't blame them for that either really.

Gonna copy and paste what I added to the prior comment from the top:

ETA: If larger programs only have one option, then I think all gyms should only have one option. Decide at the beginning, adjust for future seasons. As long as large programs can't go back and forth, small programs shouldn't either.

 

[123jump4!]

Gonna copy and paste what I added to the prior comment from the top:

ETA: If larger programs only have one option, then I think all gyms should only have one option. Decide at the beginning, adjust for future seasons. As long as large programs can't go back and forth, small programs shouldn't either.

I might be biased right now because we are at a small gym, but hopefully next year we'll be at a big gym... so we'll see if I change my mind... I don't think I would have a problem with Small Time Allstars who previously had a D2 bid now getting a D1 bid and competing against my kid's Big Gym Extreme team.

Whether we agree or not on if it's right or not, do we agree that we think this is possible? If it is I think it won't happen that much. Because the small gyms who have been successful in the past will only go for regular summit bids. And most of the gyms who go for D2 will not be good enough for regular summit. There will only be a handful of surprise successful teams who might be able to "upgrade" from D2 to D1.

 

[SL&AM]

I might be biased right now because we are at a small gym, but hopefully next year we'll be at a big gym... so we'll see if I change my mind... I don't think I would have a problem with Small Time Allstars who previously had a D2 bid now getting a D1 bid and competing against my kid's Big Gym Extreme team.

Whether we agree or not on if it's right or not, do we agree that we think this is possible? If it is I think it won't happen that much. Because the small gyms who have been successful in the past will only go for regular summit bids. And most of the gyms who go for D2 will not be good enough for regular summit. There will only be a handful of surprise successful teams who might be able to "upgrade" from D2 to D1.

I think we're talking in different languages because I honestly don't think the majority of gyms that go to D2 'aren't good enough' to go to the normal Summit. I think one of the largest appeals; at least from what I've seen here, is that D2 will be significantly cheaper since it's not at Disney. I don't think anyone who is sending their kid to D2 is thinking about it in terms of, "Well my CP is only a D2 cheerleader, she could never win D1..."

When it comes to World's, I agree that it's much harder for smaller programs to break in because it's strictly LVL 5/6 and those athletes can be hard to come by even in some of the most cheer populated areas. However, the Summit is everything from 1-5R Youth through Senior; a gym might only have 2 teams total but have an AMAZING Y2 that wins it all (or any other division). I think it's kinda an oxymoron to equate large gyms with success. Sure, their teams have a great shot at being successful but I've seen large gyms with sucky lower level teams that wouldn't win at either Summit and some small programs with amazing teams.

 

[123jump4!]

I think we're talking in different languages because I honestly don't think the majority of gyms that go to D2 'aren't good enough' to go to the normal Summit. I think one of the largest appeals; at least from what I've seen here, is that D2 will be significantly cheaper since it's not at Disney. I don't think anyone who is sending their kid to D2 is thinking about it in terms of, "Well my CP is only a D2 cheerleader, she could never win D1..."

When it comes to World's, I agree that it's much harder for smaller programs to break in because it's strictly LVL 5/6 and those athletes can be hard to come by even in some of the most cheer populated areas. However, the Summit is everything from 1-5R Youth through Senior; a gym might only have 2 teams total but have an AMAZING Y2 that wins it all (or any other division). I think it's kinda an oxymoron to equate large gyms with success. Sure, their teams have a great shot at being successful but I've seen large gyms with sucky lower level teams that wouldn't win at either Summit and some small programs with amazing teams.

Oh... I thought D2 Summit was to give smaller gyms a chance at winning something so I assumed that a lot of smaller gyms thought they could have a chance at placing well in D2 but not D1. But I also get that it's cheaper etc yes.

Anyway, if smaller gyms are placing well at D1 Summit then we might ask why D2 is necessary. But I'm sure that discussion has already been had!

I would love for CP's team to go to D2... it seems like a fun competition and less crazy than regular Disney. Fingers crossed!

 

[quitthedrama]

My biggest issue is the manipulation it allows. Basically Varsity is allowing Awesome All Stars to create and bring one stacked team to the Summit while allowing the rest of their teams to go to D2 Summit.

 

[SL&AM]

Oh... I thought D2 Summit was to give smaller gyms a chance at winning something so I assumed that a lot of smaller gyms thought they could have a chance at placing well in D2 but not D1. But I also get that it's cheaper etc yes.

Anyway, if smaller gyms are placing well at D1 Summit then we might ask why D2 is necessary. But I'm sure that discussion has already been had!

I would love for CP's team to go to D2... it seems like a fun competition and less crazy than regular Disney. Fingers crossed!

I'm sure the big gym v. small gym has been debated and it's likely why D1 and D2 became a thing, along with the fact that Varsity is a money making machine and what better way then to create two end of the year mega competitions! I mean, really, at the end of the day it's all about the green for them.

As for the Summit, I'm thankful not to be in the business of bid chasing yet so I really have no skin in this particular game. Hopefully by the time CP is eligible to go they'll have worked out the loopholes.

 

[123jump4!]

My biggest issue is the manipulation it allows. Basically Varsity is allowing Awesome All Stars to create and bring one stacked team to the Summit while allowing the rest of their teams to go to D2 Summit.

Interesting. But isn't stacking already an issue, even from some bigger gyms. (I'm thinking of a medium size gym in our area, I know they do this. And they don't qualify for D2.)

 

[catlady]

D2 definitely should not be looked at as an easier division but, more as an opportunity to even out the playing field and allow for future growth since it grew so quickly, IMO. D2 has different crossover rules being that small gyms sometimes have to use multi-leveled athletes to make up a team.

Both D1 and D2 are limited to 5 crossovers including up to 5 World's athletes. World's athletes can only cross to level 4 and 5R in D1 and D2 but, on D2, a level 5R athlete can crossover to level 1, as long as, there are no more than 5 crossovers. D1 can only cross up or down one level up to 5 athletes.

 

[cheer25mom]

I think we're talking in different languages because I honestly don't think the majority of gyms that go to D2 'aren't good enough' to go to the normal Summit. I think one of the largest appeals; at least from what I've seen here, is that D2 will be significantly cheaper since it's not at Disney. I don't think anyone who is sending their kid to D2 is thinking about it in terms of, "Well my CP is only a D2 cheerleader, she could never win D1..."

When it comes to World's, I agree that it's much harder for smaller programs to break in because it's strictly LVL 5/6 and those athletes can be hard to come by even in some of the most cheer populated areas. However, the Summit is everything from 1-5R Youth through Senior; a gym might only have 2 teams total but have an AMAZING Y2 that wins it all (or any other division). I think it's kinda an oxymoron to equate large gyms with success. Sure, their teams have a great shot at being successful but I've seen large gyms with sucky lower level teams that wouldn't win at either Summit and some small programs with amazing teams.

Big gyms have an advantage at all levels. There is no need to put a child on a team they don't have ALL the skills for, plus some. In fact, its common to "stack" teams with athletes well above level mixed in with level appropriate kids. Everyone is able to participate on a team appropriate to their skill level, and some compete down to strengthen those teams. A big gym mom made a comment to me this weekend that her CP had been waiting 2 years on a spot on a certain team at their gym. She had much higher level skills, but wanted a spot on this team because she had a shot at a jacket. She also competed with a higher level team. Big gyms have the luxury of taking only the best of the best at every level for certain teams they are looking at to win big.

Small gyms don't have the luxury of doing that, and often have to include athletes on teams with out all skills for that level. Its a constant balancing act between the ability and advancement of individual athletes and fielding a winning team. Many big gyms don't place everyone who comes through their door interested in all star. They have prep teams, show teams, and development classes for kids that aren't ready for the all star experience. Most small gyms find a place for every child on a team because they just don't have those resources. They place everyone as close to their level as possible and work with what they have. That often means that Youth teams include 6 year olds because there aren't enough minis to field a team, and senior teams include 10 year olds because they have higher skills than others their age. There aren't enough level and age appropriate peers for them. Big gyms don't have to do that that because they can field more teams at more age and skill levels.

Sure, there are absolutely exceptions to this, but in general, numbers don't lie. More kids= more options for how and where to place them. There are small gyms that have that one amazing team, but honestly that is a fleeting thing. They got the right mix of kids to sign up the right year to make it work. It's much more likely that a large gym is able to engineer that one team.

 

[cheer25mom]

Interesting. But isn't stacking already an issue, even from some bigger gyms. (I'm thinking of a medium size gym in our area, I know they do this. And they don't qualify for D2.)

Yes, I can think of a couple of gyms that field "amazing" level 2 teams loaded with level 4-5 athletes. One of them is local to us and I know that these kids are competing on both level 2 and 4 or R5 when it isn't necessary.

 

[Lovemyoagirl]

Trading of Bids
Paid D2 Summit Bid– You must use your Paid D2 Summit bid. This bid type or location cannot be changed.
At-Large D2 Summit Bid– You can ONLY upgrade to a PAID D2 Summit bid or a PAID Summit bid (Orlando).
Wild Card/ At Large Summit Bids– You can ONLY upgrade to a PAID D2 Summit bid or a PAID Summit bid (Orlando).

I copied this from the D2 FAQ page. So, it seems that once a D2 bid is accepted, there are limits to the options to change or upgrade a bid.

 

[123jump4!]

Trading of Bids
Paid D2 Summit Bid– You must use your Paid D2 Summit bid. This bid type or location cannot be changed.
At-Large D2 Summit Bid– You can ONLY upgrade to a PAID D2 Summit bid or a PAID Summit bid (Orlando).
Wild Card/ At Large Summit Bids– You can ONLY upgrade to a PAID D2 Summit bid or a PAID Summit bid (Orlando).

I copied this from the D2 FAQ page. So, it seems that once a D2 bid is accepted, there are limits to the options to change or upgrade a bid.

Good find. So if Small Time Allstars get a paid D2 bid and then think "oh wow that was good but now we can go for a regular summit bid", they're out of luck. But if they only get wild card or at large D2 they still could go to regular summit instead, but only if they get paid (which might be unlikely).

So basically in reality small gyms do have to make up their minds at the beginning of the season if they are going for D2 or regular Summit bids. Bye bye regular Summit dreams... (just kidding, I would be extremely happy with D2).

 

[Lovemyoagirl]

D2 does not offer wild card bids. The reference to the trading of a wild card bid was referring to trading a summit wild card for a D2 paid.