All-Star What Is This Rule Proposal About The Usasf Age Change

[luv2cheer92]

So can anyone tell me what the benefit would be overall for the industry to raise bottom age for senior divisions?

I can't remember all of the points, but there was a lot of good stuff said for both sides in the videos on the USASF site, it's in the first video.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

i definitely agree with this...most of the time my cp comes home from the gym and reports inappropriate things from 14 year olds. Those are by far the biggest offenders. They're old enough to have some experience and young enough to think it's cool to talk about it around little kids.

I coach a J3 and Seniors.

My Senior teams are generally not too young. Most of my Seniors have typically been at least in HS. This past season, we added a couple of middle school aged girls, so I was rather vigilant about conversation topics as the middle schoolers are in 7th and 8th with teammates who are 2 years from graduating HS.

They're surprisingly mindful of their topics/language for the most part.

On the other hand, 1/3 of my J3 just recently discovered what Beyonce was talking about when she said "Surfboardt" and seriously couldn't stop giggling about it and even so nicely informed some of their very young teammates. I had to tell them that I know what it means and I don't want to hear it again (they were so surprised, but don't realize that when you work in a HS you know these things. That and I'm not as "old" as they think I am and I actually well, listen to Beyonce.)

 

[dawgshow]

So can anyone tell me what the benefit would be overall for the industry to raise bottom age for senior divisions?

Less burnout? I would suspect that kids who "peak" at 10 or 12 won't have as much to work for until they age out. Really, if you make it to worlds at 12, are you REALLY going to be excited about doing it for the next 6 years?
Taking L5 put of it, if you are 10 or 11 and on the Senior team, are you going to want to stay there for the next 7/8 years? I know levels change but it seems like you've already reached the top once you hit Senior teams.
I think another benefit would be consistent body control in all aspects. Generally, and I know that there are exceptions, if a 10 year old and a 15 year old do the same skills, the 15 year old's skills are going to look cleaner. I think that visual consistency will be improved if we have similar aged athletes competing together.

 

[JuniorFusionFire]

.My only issue with the current age grid is that the age divisions for usasf cheer and for usasf dance are NOT aligned, which makes things look completely inconsistent.
The cheer ages are: tiny- 5u ; mini- 8u; youth-11u; junior-14u; senior 18u ; while for dance it's: mini-9u; youth-12u; junior-15u; and senior- 18u. I was kind of upset that nobody addressed this at the meeting because the misalignment really bothers me- if you're going to make age divisions USASF, make them consistent across the board. As to which set I prefer, I prefer the 8, 11, 14 (mini, youth, junior) set [and hopefully tiny will NOT be raised To age 6] because those top ages represent the dance competition (competitive dance competition, not allstar) ones (mini, junior, and teen respectively) and it'll just add more consistency across the board.

P.s.- it's late and no dinner so i probably make little To negative sense here

 

[SheCheers]

Less burnout? I would suspect that kids who "peak" at 10 or 12 won't have as much to work for until they age out. Really, if you make it to worlds at 12, are you REALLY going to be excited about doing it for the next 6 years?
Taking L5 put of it, if you are 10 or 11 and on the Senior team, are you going to want to stay there for the next 7/8 years? I know levels change but it seems like you've already reached the top once you hit Senior teams.
I think another benefit would be consistent body control in all aspects. Generally, and I know that there are exceptions, if a 10 year old and a 15 year old do the same skills, the 15 year old's skills are going to look cleaner. I think that visual consistency will be improved if we have similar aged athletes competing together.

I think burnout happens when you over do it, which can be at any age/level/sport.

Just making senior level 5 (or anything) isn't peaking IMHO. There is so much that can be done and learned at level 5.

I don't really see visual consistency as an argument to keep a 12 year old with a whip double out of worlds.

And just to further discus, not arguing with you...

IMHO, Worlds is the main issue. Kids with the skills to compete at that level want to compete them at that level. The industry has made worlds what it is. What many athletes strive for. Yet, age really shouldn't be the factor, SKILL should. Quit giving out bids to janky teams that make you gasp in fear for their safety and instead give out bids to level 5 teams of any age group that meet a minimum score. Allow juniors at worlds, raise the bottom age of senior, make a minimum score. That should keep everyone safe. Competing the best of the best and not making it so every 12 year old with a full thinks they need to be on a senior team.

 

[SheCheers]

A point Debbie love made in the video in favor of raising the age to 13 was that kids that young shouldn't be training at that intensity. But I really don't think one year is going to make a drastic difference. Growth plates don't fuse until about age 16, so wouldn't that be a better bottom age for that argument? Wouldn't an off season suffice to give young bodies a rest?

The bottom age for a level 10 gymnast is 9 years old. And I'm pretty sure they're training many more hours than a level 5 cheerleader.

 

[Official OWECheer]

A point Debbie love made in the video in favor of raising the age to 13 was that kids that young shouldn't be training at that intensity. But I really don't think one year is going to make a drastic difference. Growth plates don't fuse until about age 16, so wouldn't that be a better bottom age for that argument? Wouldn't an off season suffice to give young bodies a rest?

The bottom age for a level 10 gymnast is 9 years old. And I'm pretty sure they're training many more hours than a level 5 cheerleader.

But consider the physical aftermath... gymnastics is like sport-Siberia, it's intense.

 

[kobegirl]

I am more of the mindset of strength issues. It is annoying to see minis on youth teams flying.....how are those bases/backspots/flyers ever really learning to use their body control effectively. Sooooo many videos of people stunting with a baby that amazingly can be tight. cute, but, there is so much solidness under them....But give youth-aged kids the time to learn proper stunting tech with age/size-peers and they are developing proper tech, muscle strength, and stamina. Give micro-flyers to junior groups is not really developing them as fully as if they were working as precisely with an age/size-mate. Then get to seniors.....oh, we ABSOLUTELY need much smaller flyers to do that stunt :/ But fast-forward, watching flyers actually be moved back down to actual age groups in a new cheer season.....they really have to perfect their technique in flying - but - gasp - have to work just as hard at pulling up/staying tight/proper technique. Annnnnd, the stunt group has to gain that strength/stamina and GREAT technique to make the stunt work. My cp spent 4 years on youth, as her peers absolutely did 3. She had a full at 9. Didn't get to compete it until last year of youth. She didn't feel held back. Maybe just a little ahead in running tumbling for a small time, but really perfected that layout-stepout and her stunting. oh, and.....yes we had athletes on those teams that didn't have the required tumbling skills, but were absolute necessities for stunting/pyr/etc. They threw extra needed baskets while some dynamo tumbled again. Just my opinion, but I think absolute age values USASF wide would encourage creativity, strength, stamina and development. IMO, stunt groups need that time with age/size-mates. I know I'm in the minority, though

 

[TealShades]

I am more of the mindset of strength issues. It is annoying to see minis on youth teams flying.....how are those bases/backspots/flyers ever really learning to use their body control effectively. Sooooo many videos of people stunting with a baby that amazingly can be tight. cute, but, there is so much solidness under them....But give youth-aged kids the time to learn proper stunting tech with age/size-peers and they are developing proper tech, muscle strength, and stamina. Give micro-flyers to junior groups is not really developing them as fully as if they were working as precisely with an age/size-mate. Then get to seniors.....oh, we ABSOLUTELY need much smaller flyers to do that stunt :/ But fast-forward, watching flyers actually be moved back down to actual age groups in a new cheer season.....they really have to perfect their technique in flying - but - gasp - have to work just as hard at pulling up/staying tight/proper technique. Annnnnd, the stunt group has to gain that strength/stamina and GREAT technique to make the stunt work. My cp spent 4 years on youth, as her peers absolutely did 3. She had a full at 9. Didn't get to compete it until last year of youth. She didn't feel held back. Maybe just a little ahead in running tumbling for a small time, but really perfected that layout-stepout and her stunting. oh, and.....yes we had athletes on those teams that didn't have the required tumbling skills, but were absolute necessities for stunting/pyr/etc. They threw extra needed baskets while some dynamo tumbled again. Just my opinion, but I think absolute age values USASF wide would encourage creativity, strength, stamina and development. IMO, stunt groups need that time with age/size-mates. I know I'm in the minority, though

Wow you explained that so well. And it makes absolute sense when it's explained that way. You brought up a good point.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I am more of the mindset of strength issues. It is annoying to see minis on youth teams flying.....how are those bases/backspots/flyers ever really learning to use their body control effectively. Sooooo many videos of people stunting with a baby that amazingly can be tight. cute, but, there is so much solidness under them....But give youth-aged kids the time to learn proper stunting tech with age/size-peers and they are developing proper tech, muscle strength, and stamina. Give micro-flyers to junior groups is not really developing them as fully as if they were working as precisely with an age/size-mate. Then get to seniors.....oh, we ABSOLUTELY need much smaller flyers to do that stunt :/ But fast-forward, watching flyers actually be moved back down to actual age groups in a new cheer season.....they really have to perfect their technique in flying - but - gasp - have to work just as hard at pulling up/staying tight/proper technique. Annnnnd, the stunt group has to gain that strength/stamina and GREAT technique to make the stunt work. My cp spent 4 years on youth, as her peers absolutely did 3. She had a full at 9. Didn't get to compete it until last year of youth. She didn't feel held back. Maybe just a little ahead in running tumbling for a small time, but really perfected that layout-stepout and her stunting. oh, and.....yes we had athletes on those teams that didn't have the required tumbling skills, but were absolute necessities for stunting/pyr/etc. They threw extra needed baskets while some dynamo tumbled again. Just my opinion, but I think absolute age values USASF wide would encourage creativity, strength, stamina and development. IMO, stunt groups need that time with age/size-mates. I know I'm in the minority, though

I agree. I just worry about the small gyms.

 

[CheerBank]

I agree. I just worry about the small gyms.

We are at a small gym. It would be a huge adjustment but it is not unattainable. It might actually reduce the number of crossovers, since kids would possibly be able fly longer with their peers basing them as opposed to crossing up to an older team in order to continue flying.
I do agree with @SheCheers about the minimal difference in physicality between a 12 and 13 year old in terms of a 13 year old being ready to train with more intensity than a 12 year old. Knowing the difference in development amongst girls at this age, it would make more sense to add on a few more years so that puberty has passed and growth plates have closed (based off of what Debbie Love spoke about in the first video).
It did sound that there were more supporters of the age increase than dissenters from those who voiced their opinions.

OT from the whole age issue: I thought it was interesting that they emphasized several times the option to "abstain" from voting on a particular issue. I'm on the fence if it is good or bad that they only wanted the votes from people that each issue directly affected.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

In my personal opinion it shouldn't be about the small gyms. The senior age should be raised to 13. And for those of you saying it's no big deal to have a 10 year old on a team with 18 year olds...well it is. They learn a lot of things they shouldn't and I'm just not a fan of that. Also, no other sport has such a variety of ages on one team. I think it needs to be changed for our sport to progress

 

[icame2WERQ]

This is an entirely different issue, but on my morning commute I was looking at the worlds teams in the wiki page and I noticed a few programs -- more than last year it seems-- have two teams (or 3 in some case, ex cheer extreme has three medco teams) in some divisions. How do people feel about limiting the amount of world teams a program can bring in "x" division?

I personally feel like you should only be able to have one team per division in the worlds divisions, but for non-worlds team I think it's okay to have multiples.

 

[Fierce_Elite]

This is an entirely different issue, but on my morning commute I was looking at the worlds teams in the wiki page and I noticed a few programs -- more than last year it seems-- have two teams (or 3 in some case, ex cheer extreme has three medco teams) in some divisions. How do people feel about limiting the amount of world teams a program can bring in "x" division?

I personally feel like you should only be able to have one team per division in the worlds divisions, but for non-worlds team I think it's okay to have multiples.

I agree! But the same rule should apply for the worlds and summit bids. Many of the bids go to the same gym just different teams within that gyms and it just isn't fair for the other teams that deserved a bid. But didn't get one because multiple teams from the same gym got it.

 

[catlady]

This is an entirely different issue, but on my morning commute I was looking at the worlds teams in the wiki page and I noticed a few programs -- more than last year it seems-- have two teams (or 3 in some case, ex cheer extreme has three medco teams) in some divisions. How do people feel about limiting the amount of world teams a program can bring in "x" division?

I personally feel like you should only be able to have one team per division in the worlds divisions, but for non-worlds team I think it's okay to have multiples.

That would deter a lot of people from going to gyms with multiple locations. I don't have a problem with a gym with several satellite locations going to World's in the same division, but I would be upset if they were manipulating rosters and having select athletes compete at multiple gyms locations. Is that legal?