All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

[stuntjumptumble]

Anyone read the article about how participation trophies are making kids soft? I feel like that's relevant.


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[MissCongeniality]

Anyone read the article about how participation trophies are making kids soft? I feel like that's relevant.


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I agree. If everyone gets to be a "winner" what happens when you don't?
The title "national champion" is already a joke in this sport.
Our kids don't all need trophies or to "win" to learn to be successful and feel successful

 

[dance_extreme_94]

Anyone read the article about how participation trophies are making kids soft? I feel like that's relevant.


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I agree with you. This is also an issue in the dance world. I don't know about cheerleading, but it makes a lot of the dancers in the dance world who do competitions not work as hard to place in their category. Why? because all they want is a trophy, and when they automatically get it for simply participating in the competition they have this mentality of "why do I need to do better" when I already have a trophy.

I guess too many parents made complaints about about their kids not getting trophies while others did.

 

[SL&AM]

After our school beat the private school (basketball) our cheerleaders were no longer allowed down on the floor during games with this team because this team deemed them "too distracting". (All boys school)

Oh for the love!

I went to public school and coached there a few years in college. We were cheering at a basketball game against a local private school which wasn't technically a rivalry game but had that feel. The private school was right down the road and most of the kids were friends. One kid in our student section colored a big sign with a sloppily drawn stick figure man standing outside in the grass with the sun shining down from the corner. (Your basic toddler drawing that ends up on the fridge) The sign read "Hey (private school name), can I have an art scholarship too?"

I hate to admit that I laughed.

That's hysterical!

 

[SL&AM]

Anyone read the article about how participation trophies are making kids soft? I feel like that's relevant.


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I completely agree with this being relevant and cringe at any and all sports/teams that do that sort of award model.

However, with the D1/D2 Summit thing this year, I'm actually wondering if this is USASF's way of testing the waters to try it for World's.

Not that I'd like it, but just a thought.

 

[SL&AM]

I agree with you. This is also an issue in the dance world. I don't know about cheerleading, but it makes a lot of the dancers in the dance world who do competitions not work as hard to place in their category. Why? because all they want is a trophy, and when they automatically get it for simply participating in the competition they have this mentality of "why do I need to do better" when I already have a trophy.

I guess too many parents made complaints about about their kids not getting trophies while others did.

At the average cheerleading competition; note, I say average because CP has only competed at about 7 different brands/types, but they aren't given a participation trophy, they are given medals. At a few of the competitions we did at CP's old gym, anyone below 5th place didn't even get a gym trophy. Though that is basically the standard; one large trophy for the gym, kids get medals, and banners/plaques for the specialty awards.

That being said, I did all-star dance and we never attended a trophy for all competition either; non-CP is at an All-Star Dance Studio now and it doesn't appear much has changed from my day. God, I am old...so I'm not sure which dance world/type of competition you're referring to.

I think what the OP meant with bringing this topic in is we can't always set kids up to win---if we provide a D1 and D2; are the D2 winners actually winners? If you can't compete with the big dogs then are you really a winner if you won D2 because you didn't even try to beat D1 teams? That's what is up for debate/opinion. And you'll get a lot of different opinions on that front.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

At the average cheerleading competition; note, I say average because CP has only competed at about 7 different brands/types, but they aren't given a participation trophy, they are given medals. At a few of the competitions we did at CP's old gym, anyone below 5th place didn't even get a gym trophy. Though that is basically the standard; one large trophy for the gym, kids get medals, and banners/plaques for the specialty awards.

That being said, I did all-star dance and we never attended a trophy for all competition either; non-CP is at an All-Star Dance Studio now and it doesn't appear much has changed from my day. God, I am old...so I'm not sure which dance world/type of competition you're referring to.

I think what the OP meant with bringing this topic in is we can't always set kids up to win---if we provide a D1 and D2; are the D2 winners actually winners? If you can't compete with the big dogs then are you really a winner if you won D2 because you didn't even try to beat D1 teams? That's what is up for debate/opinion. And you'll get a lot of different opinions on that front.

I'm not talking about All Star dance, studio dance. A lot of studio dance competitions get out participation trophy's

 

[SL&AM]

I'm not talking about All Star dance, studio dance. A lot of studio dance competitions get out participation trophy's

Got it.

 

[Tosh]

At the average cheerleading competition; note, I say average because CP has only competed at about 7 different brands/types, but they aren't given a participation trophy, they are given medals. At a few of the competitions we did at CP's old gym, anyone below 5th place didn't even get a gym trophy. Though that is basically the standard; one large trophy for the gym, kids get medals, and banners/plaques for the specialty awards.

That being said, I did all-star dance and we never attended a trophy for all competition either; non-CP is at an All-Star Dance Studio now and it doesn't appear much has changed from my day. God, I am old...so I'm not sure which dance world/type of competition you're referring to.

I think what the OP meant with bringing this topic in is we can't always set kids up to win---if we provide a D1 and D2; are the D2 winners actually winners? If you can't compete with the big dogs then are you really a winner if you won D2 because you didn't even try to beat D1 teams? That's what is up for debate/opinion. And you'll get a lot of different opinions on that front.

You asked some great questions! Before I try to answer some of them with my oponion on the matter, let me state that I do agree with creating the divisions.
I do not see it as "everyone needs to win" situation, becasue I absolutely do not agree with that...Tht is something that originated in pre-school where if the kid goes potty on their own and they get a "gold star". I believe that the division issue came up due to fairness, in the same manner you have a large all girl, Medium, and Small. if you happen to live in a small community where the kids are just as talented as the kids in the larger gym communities, to keep them on the same level/division is unfair. the reason being that you have more to pick and choose from to create a more dominant talented team than a smaller community. To hopefully explain a bit further, I will ask a question? Are there and why, do large gyms compete in a small division? this is to monolopize on their talent pool. You end up with a gym that has 35 individuals make a level 5 team and they only put 16/20 of those athletes on the mat; whereas a small gym may bearly have 20 kids and all 20 have to be on the mat....this senario is what makes it unfair....so creating a D1/D11 situation will only even things out across the board, not provide every kid with a medal.

 

[SL&AM]

You asked some great questions! Before I try to answer some of them with my oponion on the matter, let me state that I do agree with creating the divisions.
I do not see it as "everyone needs to win" situation, becasue I absolutely do not agree with that...Tht is something that originated in pre-school where if the kid goes potty on their own and they get a "gold star". I believe that the division issue came up due to fairness, in the same manner you have a large all girl, Medium, and Small. if you happen to live in a small community where the kids are just as talented as the kids in the larger gym communities, to keep them on the same level/division is unfair. the reason being that you have more to pick and choose from to create a more dominant talented team than a smaller community. To hopefully explain a bit further, I will ask a question? Are there and why, do large gyms compete in a small division? this is to monolopize on their talent pool. You end up with a gym that has 35 individuals make a level 5 team and they only put 16/20 of those athletes on the mat; whereas a small gym may bearly have 20 kids and all 20 have to be on the mat....this senario is what makes it unfair....so creating a D1/D11 situation will only even things out across the board, not provide every kid with a medal.

Let me clarify, the D1/D2 thing to me is kinda pointless because my kid is a mini and it doesn't effect us. That being said, I can understand the draw to why some would want it and some don't. I will say, as a mom taking a step back, when USASF/Varsity create the D1/D2 scenario it makes me wonder if they're actually listening to people or following the money? I've mentioned it before, but where CP came from had several very small gyms in the local area. I know of one of those gyms who have gone out and created a Summit worthy team this year, for the first year ever, to try and get a bid for the D2 Summit. Could that team get a D1 Summit bid? Maybe, but that isn't what it's after---and D2 born a whole new group of teams that may not have considered the Summit before and now are. I see this being a disaster with World's and this is strictly because Level 5 skills are hard---they're not easy to obtain, and what is to stop a D2 gym from throwing together a team to go to the D2 World's that has no business competing? If we could monitory the safety better, then I may think differently---but with World's already filled with sloppy, put together teams who only go 'for the experience', my fear is that mentality growing with the ability of a D2. Where I think D1/D2 works better for the Summit is in the multiple levels---those kids don't have to be World's material to compete, they can be Level 1 or 2 or 3...etc. Just get the team together and go to big events and hope you hit;D1/ D2 Worlds...not so much.

 

[quitthedrama]

I will say, as a mom taking a step back, when USASF/Varsity create the D1/D2 scenario it makes me wonder if they're actually listening to people or following the money?

There was a lot of discussion on this board (and elsewhere I'm sure) about D1/DII divisions (it was focused more towards Worlds). I really think that USASF took those discussions into consideration. I feel the same way about the full top uniforms. There have been so many complaints about the poor image of cheer and girls running around malls attached to convention centers in their uniforms that I think USASF listened and created the cover up rule and full top rule. Just as Varsity created the Summit after years of "why can't level 1-4 go to Worlds?" complaints.
Sometimes we do get what we ask for - whether we like it or not!!

 

[Tosh]

There was a lot of discussion on this board (and elsewhere I'm sure) about D1/DII divisions (it was focused more towards Worlds). I really think that USASF took those discussions into consideration. I feel the same way about the full top uniforms. There have been so many complaints about the poor image of cheer and girls running around malls attached to convention centers in their uniforms that I think USASF listened and created the cover up rule and full top rule. Just as Varsity created the Summit after years of "why can't level 1-4 go to Worlds?" complaints.
Sometimes we do get what we ask for - whether we like it or not!!

I couldn't agree with you more. At this point I personally will get on the "you can't please everyone" boat; there is always going to be someone that is unhappy. As a parent of three girls, I am all for the cover-up rule. Did Varisty as well as the countless other uniform companies make additional money off of it, YES. As a parent that like the rule did I complain about the extra cost, NO. Are there parents that did not agree with the rule and additional cost, YES. Likewise, are there going to be individuals in agreement/happy with the D1/DII split, YES as they are going to be individuals that are not......so there it is. Same thing with the Summit and I do agree with you and a very good point. I remember right here on the boards the coversations about the Summit when it was first announced and the Varsity money train and who is/is not going blah, blah, blah, and in no time is has become one of the largest attended cheer competitions....I believe next to Worlds, NCA Dallas, then probably the Summit (for AS cheer).

 

[SL&AM]

There was a lot of discussion on this board (and elsewhere I'm sure) about D1/DII divisions (it was focused more towards Worlds). I really think that USASF took those discussions into consideration. I feel the same way about the full top uniforms. There have been so many complaints about the poor image of cheer and girls running around malls attached to convention centers in their uniforms that I think USASF listened and created the cover up rule and full top rule. Just as Varsity created the Summit after years of "why can't level 1-4 go to Worlds?" complaints.
Sometimes we do get what we ask for - whether we like it or not!!

I can definitely see where USASF has listened, though I definitely agree with what I bolded.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Tht is something that originated in pre-school where if the kid goes potty on their own and they get a "gold star".

LMAO! That is so cute!

 

[AScheer]

Let me clarify, the D1/D2 thing to me is kinda pointless because my kid is a mini and it doesn't effect us. That being said, I can understand the draw to why some would want it and some don't. I will say, as a mom taking a step back, when USASF/Varsity create the D1/D2 scenario it makes me wonder if they're actually listening to people or following the money? I've mentioned it before, but where CP came from had several very small gyms in the local area. I know of one of those gyms who have gone out and created a Summit worthy team this year, for the first year ever, to try and get a bid for the D2 Summit. Could that team get a D1 Summit bid? Maybe, but that isn't what it's after---and D2 born a whole new group of teams that may not have considered the Summit before and now are. I see this being a disaster with World's and this is strictly because Level 5 skills are hard---they're not easy to obtain, and what is to stop a D2 gym from throwing together a team to go to the D2 World's that has no business competing? If we could monitory the safety better, then I may think differently---but with World's already filled with sloppy, put together teams who only go 'for the experience', my fear is that mentality growing with the ability of a D2. Where I think D1/D2 works better for the Summit is in the multiple levels---those kids don't have to be World's material to compete, they can be Level 1 or 2 or 3...etc. Just get the team together and go to big events and hope you hit;D1/ D2 Worlds...not so much.

I think the idea is that if they create D2 it will take those current scary worlds teams and give them a different division. While the rules don't change for them skill wise, the need to throw skills that aren't ready in to be competitive won't be as high.

While that's a pretty thought, I think what you explained is more likely to take place. Instead of those current teams dropping to D2, I see more teams that really aren't ready shooting for that D2.