All-Star New Take On Crossovers

[BlueCat]

I think that it is a positive that most gyms in our area do not make excessive use of crossovers.

I think that it is a positive that Worlds does not allow extensive crossovers.

I think that it is a positive that NCA only allows 5 per team.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I think just the positives. Hence my lack of discussing, hah.

So how about genetic variation and and species evolution?

 

[mstealtoyou]

I can only speak from my kids personal experience but the bottom line to me is.....more performance experience, time practicing skills and technique and learning to do multiple positions on a team. The days of the "My daughter's a flyer/base/backspot." are almost gone. The days of "My daughter can do it all" are here. The competitveness for spots on a certain team are at an all time high right now. Gyms can only offer so many spots on the dream team. Whatever that might be. Having a well rounded athlete is becoming the norm now more so than ever before. Crossingover is the way to get that multifaceted athlete in a shorter amount of time. If used correctly.

 

[Mclovin]

I can only speak from my kids personal experience but the bottom line to me is.....more performance experience, time practicing skills and technique and learning to do multiple positions on a team. The days of the "My daughter's a flyer/base/backspot." are almost gone. The days of "My daughter can do it all" are here. The competitveness for spots on a certain team are at an all time high right now. Gyms can only offer so many spots on the dream team. Whatever that might be. Having a well rounded athlete is becoming the norm now more so than ever before. Crossingover is the way to get that multifaceted athlete in a shorter amount of time. If used correctly.

I KIND OF would disagree with this to some degree. What is the quickest way to "master" a position or skill needed to excel? Focus on that ONE skill/position. Learning multiple positions/skills at the same time takes longer to master one specific thing. Say my CP was at CEA and DREAMED of being on Senior Elite. I am going to ask myself what she specifically has to offer that would appeal to Ms. Pope to consider her for that team. If that is her flying ability, I am going to have her in the gym FLYING whenever I can have her in there. Whether it be double teaming, doing privates, stunt class, etc. Why in the world would I waste my time or money letting her learn to base if that was not going to help her achieve her dream?? If she was a BEAST base but small in stature, I would not be wasting my time or money letting her double team to fly on another team just because she "wanted to fly". I would be grooming her for basing basing and more basing again doing privates, double teaming, stunt class, etc. If I knew Sr. Elite needed more elite tumblers, I would be pushing her in that direction.

I guess my point is that if crossing over is just to make them multi-talented, I'm not sure that would help them achieve their dream of being on their dream team. At least not in a gym the size of CEA. Now at T&S, we have one worlds team. So no matter what your specialty, once you age off of juniors, and you have the minimal skill set for level 5, that worlds team is where you go. So it's a little different here.

Even in other aspects of life, doctors specialize in certain areas to make them more knowledgeable and better able to help their patients. Ball players focus their time and energy on "their" position, not learning multiple positions (for the most part, I know there are exceptions). Anyway, JMO. I know it's not largely agreed on by others.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I think that it is a positive that most gyms in our area do not make excessive use of crossovers.

I think that it is a positive that Worlds does not allow extensive crossovers.

I think that it is a positive that NCA only allows 5 per team.

I think it is positive that NCA only allows crossovers within the same level.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I can only speak from my kids personal experience but the bottom line to me is.....more performance experience, time practicing skills and technique and learning to do multiple positions on a team. The days of the "My daughter's a flyer/base/backspot." are almost gone. The days of "My daughter can do it all" are here. The competitveness for spots on a certain team are at an all time high right now. Gyms can only offer so many spots on the dream team. Whatever that might be. Having a well rounded athlete is becoming the norm now more so than ever before. Crossingover is the way to get that multifaceted athlete in a shorter amount of time. If used correctly.

Doesn't that create the "Jack of all trades, Master of none" athlete?

 

[Mclovin]

Doesn't that create the "Jack of all trades, Master of none" athlete?

You just said in one sentence what it took my 2 paragraphs to say! lol

 

[mstealtoyou]

You just said in one sentence what it took my 2 paragraphs to say! lol

Not in my opinion, no. But then again I have the benefit of watching this philosophy at work every single day of every single season. I get to see it at work in my own household. In your example McLovin, you said you would encourage your child to work the certain skill set that would be needed for your particular child to make a particular team. How does the average parent guage that sort of thing? I'm not a coach so I have no knowledge of this but, if someone asks you what specific tumbling set and "flyer" postitions you'll need on your Youth 4/5 team in 4 or 5 years can you really tell them that? How could you know?

If I were to say ok my little bit wants to make dream team at 16. She's 12. What will you specifically NEED on that team that year for her to make her dream a reality.

And if you agree with the Jack of all trades, master of none, why are you letting your little one crossover?

 

[CEATealMom]

Another thought from my kid’s personal experience. This, as explained from Courtney to us...and turned out to be SPOT ON!
My child was on a level 3/4 team crossed to level 5. On the level 5 team she did amazing as a base but fell short in tumbling. She puts the hours in at tumbling practice but she just had growth spurt after growth spurt and was having a very hard time learning her full so she never had a running tumbling position. Her basing skills were needed on that team though; she's pretty powerful in that department. I could only imagine how down and hard on her self she would have been if she never got to make a tumbling pass all season.
On her level 3/4 team she was at the top of her game, lots of tumbling passes, lots of stunting and basically excelling in every possible area. She's a quite girl by nature, but the leadership experience she gained on this team helped push her to come out of her shell and "take the front row", so to speak. BUT, if this was the only team she was on she would have hit a plateau and not been working to get new skills because she didn't need anything else for this team. She’s pushed herself to get and land her triple toe backs for level 5 and she says that this weekend she's throwing her full in tryouts.

If things had been different this past season and she didn't end up where she did, I think the outcome of her progression would have been very different.
I'm truly grateful for the chance for her to crossover, it built the little girl that is trying out this weekend.

 

[mstealtoyou]

Crossovers can be very good. But there NEEDS to be limitations. My youngest daughter has been a flyer her whole cheer career. She is small for her age (4'4" and 59 pounds) as an 11 year old. Her primary team is Youth 4. But last year I let her double team to my Youth 2 team because she REALLY wanted to base. Even on this youth 2 team she was small. lol This year she is helping out with my Youth 3 team basing as well. This has been a bit of a challenge for her trying to base extended one leg stunts but she is having a blast trying! So, yes, I do see the benefit of double teaming when a child REALLY wants to do it for reasons like that. But I do not agree with it to stack teams, etc. etc. and I do believe there needs to be a cap on every team.

You can disregard my last question, after rereading this I see why you're letting her do it. It's why my kids do it too. And guess what? She will end up being that mulit faceted (I never said multi talented.......) cheerleader I spoke of.

 

[Mclovin]

Not in my opinion, no. But then again I have the benefit of watching this philosophy at work every single day of every single season. I get to see it at work in my own household. In your example McLovin, you said you would encourage your child to work the certain skill set that would be needed for your particular child to make a particular team. How does the average parent guage that sort of thing? I'm not a coach so I have no knowledge of this but, if someone asks you what specific tumbling set and "flyer" postitions you'll need on your Youth 4/5 team in 4 or 5 years can you really tell them that? How could you know?

If I were to say ok my little bit wants to make dream team at 16. She's 12. What will you specifically NEED on that team that year for her to make her dream a reality.

And if you agree with the Jack of all trades, master of none, why are you letting your little one crossover?

Let me answer the last question first -- I let her crossover because at OUR gym, there's only 1 goal -- Jr. Black then Sr. Coed. There's 1 level 5 junior team and 1 level 5 senior team. So it doesn't matter if you are GREAT at any of those things really. If you have a triple toe back and a full (for the most part) you will make those teams. They don't hand pick for those teams. You make it mostly for your tumbling alone. At a larger gym, and I used CEA specifically because I quoted your post, when there is one team your child dreams of being on, not just "any level 5 team in general" but "I want to be on Sr. Elite some day", I think you need to figure out what your child is BEST at, whether it be flying, back spotting, basing, whatever, and do whatever it takes to make them SO good at that position that when it comes time to fill that specific position on Sr. Elite, your child will be one of the athletes considered for the spot. If your CP is good at everything but not GREAT at anything, does that give her a greater or smaller chance of making her dream team?? Let's use 2 athletes:

Athlete 1 -- AMAZING Main Base, can keep anyone in the air, catches on to new techniques very quickly, etc. etc.
Athlete 2 -- Good at main base, good at back spot, good at flying, good at secondary but not GREAT at any of them

If I am a coach and I am in need of a BEAST main base, I am going with Athlete 1. Who cares if Athlete 2 is good at the other positions, too. I don't need someone for the other positions.

I could be wrong, but something tells me that teams like Sr. Elite, Rays Orange, CA Panthers, F5, Stars, etc. etc. I think they hand pick the kids to be on those teams. When you have over 100 level 5 kids to choose from, you are looking for SPECIFIC spots to be filled when kids age off. Is it a flyer, main base, back spot? THOSE teams I believe are hand picked for what the team needs for the new season. With stunting becoming so important these days, you need specialists, not a jack of all trades kind of athlete. Again, I don't coach at a gym that size so I'm just speculating, but you would be hard pressed to convince me otherwise.

 

[newcheerdad]

I'm positive that having athletes crossdown multiple levels or having really young kids cross over to senior teams (with rare exceptions) is not a good idea.

 

[vipergirl]

Crossovers are extremely helpful in my opinion! Our pennsylvania gym is smaller than our other locations therefore crossovers are very beneficial to us, and also the athletes...for example, we have girls on senior 3 that cross to senior or international 5...because they may not have the standing tumbling, but they do have the running tumbling and also excel in other aspects, (basing, backing, etc.) this way they have the opportunity to be on a level 5 team and work the skills they're pushing for. It also helps us produce more teams! I personally love the crossovers and I give them HUGE props!

Speaking of crossovers, the rule this year is you can only cross to TWO teams, correct? Girls from my gym seem to think that you can only have two crossovers and I told them I was almost positive that rule didn't pass due to smaller gyms and whatnot...can anybody help me out with this one?

 

[mstealtoyou]

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. LOL Just giving a living breathing account of what really happens season after season. And I'll admit you have the coaching background to draw your conclusions from as well and I do not. I'm only speaking to the reason's why, I, as a parent allow my kids to do it. (See my last post about the trend moving to multi faceted cheerleaders) LOL I can see where you're reasonings as a parent come from too as it relates to your specific gym. Gym dynamics are different everywhere you go. In the CEA gym dynamic, I am taking the chance that my 12 year old will have so many years experience at basing and flying that she'll be able to contribute equally to "Her dream team" no matter what the staff needs on a particular day. Is it a leap of faith to some degree? Absolutely! I guess we'll just have to wait and watch and see if the gamble pays off. LOL It might not but then again........

Your athlete A and B scenario would be a good question in her thread. You know how that would look coming from me, so do a friend a favor and ask her. HAHAHAHAHA (JK....slightly)

 

[mstealtoyou]

Crossovers are extremely helpful in my opinion! Our pennsylvania gym is smaller than our other locations therefore crossovers are very beneficial to us, and also the athletes...for example, we have girls on senior 3 that cross to senior or international 5...because they may not have the standing tumbling, but they do have the running tumbling and also excel in other aspects, (basing, backing, etc.) this way they have the opportunity to be on a level 5 team and work the skills they're pushing for. It also helps us produce more teams! I personally love the crossovers and I give them HUGE props!

Speaking of crossovers, the rule this year is you can only cross to TWO teams, correct? Girls from my gym seem to think that you can only have two crossovers and I told them I was almost positive that rule didn't pass due to smaller gyms and whatnot...can anybody help me out with this one?

I'm pretty sure it's 3. A kid can't do more than 3 routines in a day. (Competition day I think it what it's speaking to)