All-Star Crossovers - Yay Or Nay?

[CheerBank]

The longer I've been an all-star parent, the crankier crossovers make me. I've seen it when it's for that one "special" cp who needs to be challenged on a team above her peer's team to a higher level team. I've seen it where coaches have done it to appease parents and then don't reprimand the kids when they no longer want to make an effort on the lower team. I've seen it where half the gym is part of a second team just so the second team can exist. I've seen it where a kid truly just loves to cheer and will take the opportunity and work hard at any and every team they are placed on regardless of the level. I personally took a stand against my cp double dipping as we call it because I felt not enough could be devoted to either team especially at competitions when the teams were competing too closely together and there was no recovery time in between.

What bothers me though is when kids who are on Level 4 or 5 teams are then also cheering for level 2 teams. I really feel there should be some universal rule made about athletes not being able to cheer up or down more than one level, and if they are on a Worlds team they should not be allow to crossover at all to a lower level, even a level 4. Imho.

 

[CoachMandiCF]

I completely agree with you. I think it's gotten very out of hand and I saw some rather crazy crossovers at Reach the Beach. This year happened to be a Senior 2 with 4 guys - all of who were on their Level 5 team too. Made no sense to me. It's taking away from the kids who are actually Level 2 and pushes them to the back.

Being in a small gym, we don't have as many crossovers as most would think. The only time we usually cross is if we need a flier. We did our first S4 team this year and crossed most of the S3 who had the Level 4 skills. But with the comps we went to, sometimes they only had 10 minutes in between ending one and warming up another. It was way too much!!

I really agree that any Worlds athlete should not cross to any lower level team.

 

[gymrat12]

LOVE LOVE LOVE... They used to have the rule that you couldn't cross more than 2 levels but then got rid of it? It needs to come back I get sooooo sick of seeing worlds team athletes on senior 1, junior 2, etc. I've seen arguments all over about how some level 5 athletes aren't used to level 2 so they aren't that big of an asset. You can't tell me if I crossed half my s4 team to my s2 that it wouldn't make them waaaaay stronger. :banghead:

 

[CD FOREVER AND EVA!]

I think there should also be a rule to how many crossovers per team ... I think their use to be a rule. I think the Level 5 Worlds rule would be good. I use to hate that some teams we competed against in Lev 2 had girls with fulls and doubles ... REALLY bothered me

 

[CD FOREVER AND EVA!]

Of course they don't do them but they're bhs were perfect ...

 

[XtremeWpg]

We'll likely have crossovers from our Senior 3 to our (pretty recreational, non worlds attending) IO6. This is because the girls want to. By no means will it stack either team, as our Senior 3 doesn't max its tumbling.

If the girls want to do both, and are eligible, they will. I see no harm in doing it this way. For us and the maybe 4 girls that will do it.

That said, this crossing over to stack a team to high heaven annoys me. If you can execute level 5 skills, why be on a level 2 team if your gym has the option of the level 5. We don't, and we only have a Senior and an IO6. So, if we have a 14 year old with a full, sorry sweetpea, level 3 you go, you can do an individual at competitions that have them.

I see both sides of the issue.

 

[yojaehs]

When it comes to crossovers, everyone can justify "why" they agree or disagree. Love or hate the current rules in place, as long as a gym stays within the LEGAL guidelines, it isn't for me to say what a gym should or should not do. It IS for me to speak to the powers that be and vote (whether my vote is actually used or not) about what I believe.

I say this because I have many friends that coach/own gyms all over the country and I find myself saying all the time "MY parents would go NUTS if we did X, Y, Z" but at their gym it works. And often times they reply the same way when I say things that we do at my gym. Crossovers is always a heated topic and there are always those that agree/disagree with the way different gyms use them.

To ME, the MAIN issue I see is that "small gyms" NEED crossovers but get mad when they see "big gyms" who many don't feel NEED crossovers use them. My reply is this, either crossovers are LEGAL or ILLEGAL, don't get mad when a gym chooses to follow the same rules as your gym.

I have noticed more and more that gyms are stacking lower level teams with crossovers, love it or hate it, it's being done more and more.

 

[gymrat12]

I coach at a small gym and I don't NEED crossovers... in fact we have zero crossovers. In my opinion, you can make a routine work with 6, 8, or 12 level appropriate kids... I don't need to cross people over just to fill out a team.

 

[SheCheers]

I coach at a small gym and I don't NEED crossovers... in fact we have zero crossovers. In my opinion, you can make a routine work with 6, 8, or 12 level appropriate kids... I don't need to cross people over just to fill out a team.

i wholeheartedly agree. our level 1 team of 13 athletes won NCA, our J3 of 19 went undefeated but at one comp. we could have used crossovers to fill them out, but didn't and we have amazing strong teams.

 

[yojaehs]

gymrat12 and SheCheers I'm speaking in general, I'm not saying that it can't be done, or that it shouldn't be done. I'm only talking about what I generally see as to the issues.

 

[gymrat12]

gymrat12 and SheCheers I'm speaking in general, I'm not saying that it can't be done, or that it shouldn't be done. I'm only talking about what I generally see as to the issues.

Oh, I understand... just thought it needed to be said. I just find it weird that our sport allows athletes to do this. You don't see a level 8 gymnast also competing level 6.

 

[JulieP]

I coach at a small gym and I don't NEED crossovers... in fact we have zero crossovers. In my opinion, you can make a routine work with 6, 8, or 12 level appropriate kids... I don't need to cross people over just to fill out a team.

Depends where you compete. I have watched a very strong, small team get completely slaughtered on a scoresheet when they obviously had the most difficulty and the strongest quantities for stunts and tumbling in their division. I had a S3 with 10 and a J2 with 15. 5 of my juniors were on my senior 3. Another 2 of the seniors were junior aged but were only on the senior team. I only had 3 senior athletes that were actually senior-aged but they have been loyal to our small gym for 5+ years, so I was not about to send them packing. I have heard comments from people about the amount of crossovers that we have between the two teams. I am sure it seems abusive that we have so many of them on our junior team, but it works for us. We pretty much used crossovers to keep a team for our older athletes. So in short, I needed crossovers to be loyal to those athletes. For many small gyms, it is a necessity.

 

[yojaehs]

Oh, I understand... just thought it needed to be said. I just find it weird that our sport allows athletes to do this. You don't see a level 8 gymnast also competing level 6.

I 100% agree, but gymnastics is a different set up that cheer in this aspect. I will admit, I've been in a situation where a girl from Sr 1 didn't show up to the comp (yes, she was kicked off for not showing up) but a girl from my Sr 5 team was there to watch her younger sister (she was not actually competing, so she wasn't technically a crossover, just using this as an example). So was it easier to have her fill in on that Sr 1 team as opposed to reworking the routine? Yes, it was. Again, this is one of those situations that if there was a rule against crossovers (if she was technically competing but for this example let's just say she was) we would have made it work. HOWEVER, this is a situation than MY gym chooses to justify, many may agree or disagree because my gym is a "big gym" which still makes me laugh. Everyone can argue against crossovers or justify why crossovers work, it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[12stepCheermom]

The only crossovers I have issues with are the ones that are done to intentionally stack teams to win a division and most especially when gyms build an entire new team for one competition out of athletes from another team.

For example, I'm aware of a gym that built a special team for one national competition to compete in sr2. They built that team from a tryout process and it was composed of kids exclusively from their level 3 and 4. I'm not aware any true level 2s were on it. I know this because they bragged about how amazing their team was endlessly on Facebook. Really?

That's really the definition of sandbagging, but that's where I think crossovers, cross the line. When it stops being about an individual kid, or about a particular isolated issue on a team, and starts being about building a ridiculously "talented" team because so many of them are actually a higher level...that's where I get annoyed. It's just poor character all around.

There was a great example my son caught...not like it wasn't obvious but I give him props...there was a team at the beach that had a guy on it..it was level2...and he was the point everything basically. The very last pose he had one arm grabbing his forearm above his head. When he did that it pulled down his sleeve and you saw the bright green wristband on his arm that the COACHING STAFF were required to wear. The kids had shoe tags.

Now I get that sometimes senior kids will "coach" tumbling....but seriously, I've never met one of those where the senior kid coach was a legitimate level two. Yet, he was competing on their level two....and later on their three...and again on their five.

That's ridiculous.

At one competition my CP and three of her team mates filled in for three other teams for injuries etc. they are all junior 4.

My CP filled in a sr2
Her teammate filled in a jr1
Her other teammate filled in a sr3.

Not a single one of them threw a tumbling pass because the person they filled in for, didn't have a running tumbling pass so neither did they. I actually got onto my cp because in the toe touch (pause) backhand spring she didn't throw the backhandspring. When I asked her why not, she said, "well suzy doesn't throw one so I probably shouldn't." she did end up at least throwing that part and as an aside that was the part I was most worried about for her filling in on a lv 2....that she'd forget to pause!

However, all of that was a perfect opportunity to "sandbag" with level 4s on lower teams and we DID NOT choose to do that. If only everyone else would have the same character.

 

[SheCheers]

I wasnt giving my example to argue against you, I agree wholeheartedly. And fill ins for injury or no shows are a different thing than crossovers. I don't see a problem with that at any level.