All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

[King]

NOTHING is going to be perfect at first..I don't care how hard you TRY to make it perfect, there are going to be flaws. In my opinion what we take as flawed and turn into perfect is the definition of success to me.

So then how many flaws are acceptable for a starting point? When do we 'pull the trigger' and go for it?

 

[p.o.k.]

That branch would be a small gym. Separate business legally, separate coaches, separate athletes, etc....



Many ideas that sound great in theory don't work that well in practice. (example: mandatory athlete registration through USASF system)

I do not believe for a minute that a smaller gym with the same "big name" brand would be a separate. It may say so on paper, but not in practice.

 

[Mclovin]

So then how many flaws are acceptable for a starting point? When do we 'pull the trigger' and go for it?

I mean, I'm no business leader or owner, so I cannot give specifics on anything. But as a coach and as a parent, I can only trust that the powers that be know the answer to that. I either have to trust that they are at least ATTEMPTING to do what's in the industry's best interest, or jump ship. If I truly felt the USASF was crooked and not attempting to do what's best for our industry, I would not allow my children to participate in this sport.

But personally speaking regarding the athlete registration, I would much rather them just put it out there and at least get some sort of tracking going than to sit on it for years and years trying to make it perfect.

Speaking from my christian background, people often times will say, "I will go to church when I get my life straightened out." When the reality is, go to church and God will help you get your life straightened out. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[BlueCat]

If I truly felt the USASF was crooked and not attempting to do what's best for our industry, I would not allow my children to participate in this sport.

USASF is not the sport. Reforms for USASF and/or alternatives are also options.

 

[BlueCat]

I have so much respect for you and how long you've been in this industry, but I am very confused on why you think athlete registration is not going to work...how can that possibly be a bad thing?

There are many facets that are potentially positive in theory. However, information is power.

I am no longer certain that giving more and more power to the non-elected current administration is worth the trade-off. Now that USASF membership is required to attend most events, USASF has a powerful hammer at its disposal. Tweak the membership requirements a little bit at a time and control the industry. We have, for now, ceded them tremendous leverage.

 

[King]

There are many facets that are potentially positive in theory. However, information is power.

I am no longer certain that giving more and more power to the non-elected current administration is worth the trade-off. Now that USASF membership is required to attend most events, USASF has a powerful hammer at its disposal. Tweak the membership requirements a little bit at a time and control the industry. We have, for now, ceded them tremendous leverage.

It's the premise of who wields this power that bothers you and the subtlety of what they can do with it? I can see that but I do think this type of control in chee was inevitable because it's need.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I mean, I'm no business leader or owner, so I cannot give specifics on anything. But as a coach and as a parent, I can only trust that the powers that be know the answer to that. I either have to trust that they are at least ATTEMPTING to do what's in the industry's best interest, or jump ship. If I truly felt the USASF was crooked and not attempting to do what's best for our industry, I would not allow my children to participate in this sport.

But personally speaking regarding the athlete registration, I would much rather them just put it out there and at least get some sort of tracking going than to sit on it for years and years trying to make it perfect.

Speaking from my christian background, people often times will say, "I will go to church when I get my life straightened out." When the reality is, go to church and God will help you get your life straightened out. That's my take on it anyway.

So the usasf should go to church? Sorry, not being rude but not seeing the connection here.


Cheer Dad = broke dad

 

[dawgshow]

I'm pretty sure it was just an example of not waiting until something is perfect before using it. At least that's how I read it.

See if this example sits better with you: do companies put out programs and apps only after they are perfect or when they are good enough, then put out fixes as problems arise?


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[BlueCat]

It's the premise of who wields this power that bothers you and the subtlety of what they can do with it? I can see that but I do think this type of control in chee was inevitable because it's need.

I'm pretty sure it was just an example of not waiting until something is perfect before using it. At least that's how I read it.

See if this example sits better with you: do companies put out programs and apps only after they are perfect or when they are good enough, then put out fixes as problems arise?

For me, a more apt analogy is building a house where after putting up the framework, you suddenly realize there are serious issues with the foundation. Do you keep building, hoping to go back and patch up the foundation later - or do you stop construction and fix the foundation? I would fix the foundation now and hold off adding room after room to the house, because the foundation gets progressively harder to fix the more you pile on top of it.

The chairman and the majority of seats the board were simply selected by the good folks in Memphis. There are no elections for those seats and they answer to no one. The only way those folks lose their seat is by UNANIMOUS vote of the board and each board member (including themselves) gets a vote. They would have to vote themselves out of power to ever lose their seat or their chairmanship. Bear in mind that most of the folks sitting in those permanent seats have never spotted a full, walked on to a competition mat in uniform, or owned their own gym. The offices for USASF are entirely within the Varsity compound. The USASF employees are on the Varsity payroll and under Varsity contract.

Admittedly, there are some good people there and they try to do the best they can given the politics of their situation, but who in the world thinks this is the right way to set up a governing body?

 

[Mclovin]

So the usasf should go to church? Sorry, not being rude but not seeing the connection here.


Cheer Dad = broke dad

LOL!!! Definitely not saying the USASF should go to church. I was simply using an example that nothing is ever going to be perfect. So if we wait for something (whether that be a person or business) to be perfect before putting our time and effort into it, we will be waiting forever...

 

[Mclovin]

USASF is not the sport. Reforms for USASF and/or alternatives are also options.

Are there really options though at this point? I don't see anyone standing up to the USASF and saying, "no, we won't do it your way". Every top gym in the nation still attends USASF events, and still does what is required of them to attend USASF Worlds.

How do we demand reform? Or what are the alternatives?

 

[King]

For me, a more apt analogy is building a house where after putting up the framework, you suddenly realize there are serious issues with the foundation. Do you keep building, hoping to go back and patch up the foundation later - or do you stop construction and fix the foundation? I would fix the foundation now and hold off adding room after room to the house, because the foundation gets progressively harder to fix the more you pile on top of it.

The chairman and the majority of seats the board were simply selected by the good folks in Memphis. There are no elections for those seats and they answer to no one. The only way those folks lose their seat is by UNANIMOUS vote of the board and each board member (including themselves) gets a vote. They would have to vote themselves out of power to ever lose their seat or their chairmanship. Bear in mind that most of the folks sitting in those permanent seats have never spotted a full, walked on to a competition mat in uniform, or owned their own gym. The offices for USASF are entirely within the Varsity compound. The USASF employees are on the Varsity payroll and under Varsity contract.

Admittedly, there are some good people there and they try to do the best they can given the politics of their situation, but who in the world thinks this is the right way to set up a governing body?

I think that is a pretty apt description. I will say I think the way the current situation is it is very hard for 95% of the cheer world (whether it is the coaches world or the entire cheer world) to understand the implications. I don't think most people have the desire to want to know what is going on. Somewhat like our political system people vote on an image or caricature of a candidate and then go on about their business trusting that things are being handled for them (granted they did get to vote in our system as opposed to someone choosing them for us). To tackle it head on enough people have to want to change the system enough and complain enough to really make a direct change. A more powerful and effective way to create change is create a way gyms compete directly with themselves and not need a mediator (aka an EP). Somewhat like what CL is doing (and Rev Cheer and maybe allstar games) but CL, for example, still fell back to using an EP and still has not conquered the problems that prevent this event from being overly successful. There needs to be a universal scoresheet that emphasizes objective (difficulty) and subjective (execution / performance / creativity). It needs to be the same everywhere so where a team goes to compete a specific routine does not matter. They should get the same score for a particular performance where ever they go. There needs to be a LOT more competition in each division. The fact that there are not a ton of teams in all divisions means people have to go out and search for competition. I predicted a couple years ago that gyms would do small one day events with little to no competition for experience being in front of a crowd and then everyone would gravitate to the mega events because they are guaranteed competition (the middle tier events would suffer). This has made the mega events stronger and stronger and allowed the current system to get even stronger. If we removed a lot of the division sizes and just made one standard, 24, we would create a lot more teams in each division. Instead of there being 4 Junior 3 teams in Georgia, for example, the shrinking of size would redistribute athletes from the top down and to other gyms. In a few years (because it would take a minute to sort itself out) we could end up with 7-9 teams in Junior 3 in Georgia. Why does having so many teams to compete against matter? It takes away power from the central events and allows gyms to compete more regionally. Texas is extremely unique in that they are already kinda this way. There is just such an abundance of athletes interested in cheer that Texas operates how the rest of cheer needs to get to free up gyms to make decisions. I know having one division size would hurt the mega gyms (Cheer Athletics for example) but it would also allow so much more competition in all regions it would change the landscape of how cheer works.

 

[Mclovin]

I think that is a pretty apt description. I will say I think the way the current situation is it is very hard for 95% of the cheer world (whether it is the coaches world or the entire cheer world) to understand the implications.I don't think most people have the desire to want to know what is going on. Somewhat like our political system people vote on an image or caricature of a candidate and then go on about their business trusting that things are being handled for them (granted they did get to vote in our system as opposed to someone choosing them for us).

THIS!! Couldn't be more true.

 

[tumbleyoda]

They also have to be willing to lose power, status, control, and $$$, even it is for a short term and benefits the entire industry in the long term. That I submit, they do not want to do - esp out of Memphis. Not at this point at least.

 

[King]

They also have to be willing to lose power, status, control, and $$$, even it is for a short term and benefits the entire industry in the long term. That I submit, they do not want to do - esp out of Memphis. Not at this point at least.

Empower the gyms to be able to do things on their own once all the challenges have been figured out (scoring, safety, finding competition, etc...) and you don't need one giant unifying organization. But as long as it takes great effort to find competition in any level current things wont change. I really like the idea of the CL, Rev Cheer, others but for them all to succeed they need to have a very successful co-competition that goes on during / after the Level 5 showcase. When you look at it from that perspective it is MUCH harder for them to strongly succeed and get that second competition off the ground.