All-Star Hey! We Resemble That?

catlady said:

@mollymags @Cheermom1969 @cheerKT My issue was not the debate, as much as, the comparison to the World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. His point was, our kids are very athletic and will be the first one to admit that All Star cheer is a total body workout. He wasn't debating the teamwork, the winning and losing with grace, the lessons learned, he was stating the Wrestling Federation had the same obstacles to overcome with the debate on "sport" and found its home in the "entertainment" category. I guess I'm interested in knowing if I'm the only person who has strictly debated cheerleading in the sport vs. spirit/leadership category, and what their thoughts are with the "entertainment" category.

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I wasn't commenting on whether he did or didn't. My statement is just my feeling in general whenever this whole debate of sport/not a sport arises.

catlady said:

@cheermomforever He has watched All Star and realizes it is nothing like sideline. He was comparing the choreography vs. spontaneous action, the glam and glitter vs. dirt and sweat, the bling on the uniforms vs. the number, etc. I hate to say it but, he was actually making a very compelling argument, which by the way, really ticked me off.

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I did notice that he realized the difference, and should of said that, I just made a general comment that most people not involved do not realize there is a huge difference between the two and how much athleticism AS does take.

Part of what makes the WWF entertainment is that it is scripted with predetermined outcomes. The only purpose of WWF is to entertain an audience. There is no real competition. Cheer choreography is much more akin to a gymnastics routine. Yes, the participant has planned what they will do before taking the mat, but how they execute their plan leads to a score that is compared with others doing the same thing. The athlete does not collaborate with their opponent.

MyGirlCheers said:

Part of what makes the WWF entertainment is that it is scripted with predetermined outcomes. The only purpose of WWF is to entertain an audience. There is no real competition. Cheer choreography is much more akin to a gymnastics routine. Yes, the participant has planned what they will do before taking the mat, but how they execute their plan leads to a score that is compared with others doing the same thing. The athlete does not collaborate with their opponent.

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You could even compare it to competitive diving too. You know ahead of time and perfect the skills you are going to perform and get scored on them, then wait and see how those match up to your competitors. I would be interested in hearing his input on other subjective sports like this.

I don't think we will ever see cheerleading as we know it in All Star as a college sport. When the USGA tried to step in and was basically ignored (Varsity likes to do this "stick my fingers in my ears and scream LALALALALA so I don't have to hear you routine) they launched A&T which this year is being exhibitioned in high schools. Every year more colleges sign up to have teams and if gymnastic gyms ever start offering this at the elementary/middle school level...I would say All Star will be in trouble.
In response to the cheer vs. dance. Ask any "dance mom" what the opinion of acro is. It's not the most respected art form in dance. Yes it is fun to watch but a primary dancer for a company probably can't do a tuck but can do a whole routine on their toes. And dance does not "stunt" they do lifts which is completely different so his argument is invalid.
And spontaneous movement as being a requirement for something to be a sport? What about golf? Obviously he's never seen a video of some of the saves that bases have had to do to keep their flyer from dying.

cheerKT said:

You could even compare it to competitive diving too. You know ahead of time and perfect the skills you are going to perform and get scored on them, then wait and see how those match up to your competitors. I would be interested in hearing his input on other subjective sports like this.

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I didn't bring up diving but, I did bring up synchronized swimming, skating and rhythmic gymnastics. He, personally, doesn't agree with the "artistic" athlete being in the same category as a "sports" athlete. He isn't a jerk about it, he recognizes and appreciates the work of what he calls the "artistic" athlete. I asked him why he felt those would qualify as sports in the Olympics, and All Star would not, and he went into the International Olympic Committee and International Sport Federation qualifications for a sport.
He said one of the most important qualifiers for Olympic sports is the mere fact of how many countries participate in the activity. I had never put much thought into that either.
My daughters team won The Summit and he recognizes her as a very serious athlete and acknowledges what these kids do is extremely difficult BUT, he said he feels the same way about Cirque du Soleil as he does All Star and the WWE. Again, his was an outsiders opinion that I found interesting only because I had never considered the "entertainment" category. He, also, reminded me Macy's found it so entertaining, they made their own All Star team for the tree lighting.

How in the heck can he compare what wrestlers do in the WWE to what our kids do...REALLY? There is NO comparison!

I understand that people want cheer recognized as a sport but be careful what you wish for. Once it's classified, a lot of restrictions will come into place. You think the uniform guidelines are bad now? Just wait.
I've gotten to the point of responding to "cheer's not a sport" with "no, but its definitely athletic"
Of course, dad comparing it to wrestling shows that he only almost gets what it is about.

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cheermomforever said:

How in the heck can he compare what wrestlers do in the WWE to what our kids do...REALLY? There is NO comparison!

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His comparison was with the theatrics with the lights, music, bling, makeup, etc., not the actual activity.

I see this the same way but in reverse....

Why is the AS community so hot to be considered a "sport?" It's like we have a collective inferiority complex about what we/our kids do.

It makes no difference what the outside world thinks. It doesn't make us more or less legit to have a label. If you love what you do, love it for yourself and don't judge your own self-worth based on someone else's opinion of it.

I say the same thing to teenagers with self-esteem issues all the time. AS Cheer is like that pretty, talented, smart girl that sits in the back of he class wishing everyone would like her.


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12stepCheermom said:

I say the same thing to teenagers with self-esteem issues all the time. AS Cheer is like that pretty, talented, smart girl that sits in the back of he class wishing everyone would like her.


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Maybe if the pretty, smart, talented girl wasn't so quick to rise to the offensive and tell everyone why her smarts made her smarter than everyone else, others may be more receptive. There's nothing I hate more than cheerleaders telling everyone why allstar is so much harder and more legitimate than other sports.

Wait I lied, there IS something I hate more… cheerleaders using injuries to prove why allstar is a sport. And uniforms you can't wear a sports bra under.

Ok, so I've been a WWE fan and a cheerleader almost my whole life. I've never seen it compared, but now it seems to make some sense. Is WWE scripted, and do the talent know what's coming in the ring? Most of the time yes. But it's still athletic, and they still train and take risks. Cheer is also based in pre practice routines. The only difference is that we actually are competing and there are no pre determined outcomes.

Just wanted to say that because I find a lot of people not really understanding how the WWE works. I personally DO see cheer as an entertainment sport. Because we do entertain people. But we are also competing. Cheer is so complex now than when I first started and had to defend it. It's easier now, but still the structure of the sport is really hard to explain so I just don't even try.

ETA: You'd be surprised how much cheer/gymnastics shows up in the ring!

@12stepCheermom LOL, I've never thought of the inferiority complex. There are many parents like my neighbor that don't allow their kids to participate in "non-sport" activities and for most of them it boils down to safety and funding. Sport status can often provide qualified coaches vs. a sponsor or advisor, it can provide the necessary funding for equipment and uniforms, in some cases allow access to qualified sport medicine personnel, in college it can mean more scholarship opportunity, travel expenses paid vs. fundraising, etc.
I geek on everything from the business perspective and AS is what my kid loves. Being in the "artistic" athlete or entertainment activity category, unfortunately, doesn't bring much to the table in the way of safety and funding in HS and college. Does that change the way I feel about AS? Absolutely not. Do I think it affects the way insurance companies, doctors and outsiders look at HS, AS, and college cheer? Absolutely.

12stepCheermom said:

I see this the same way but in reverse....

Why is the AS community so hot to be considered a "sport?" It's like we have a collective inferiority complex about what we/our kids do.

It makes no difference what the outside world thinks. It doesn't make us more or less legit to have a label. If you love what you do, love it for yourself and don't judge your own self-worth based on someone else's opinion of it.

I say the same thing to teenagers with self-esteem issues all the time. AS Cheer is like that pretty, talented, smart girl that sits in the back of he class wishing everyone would like her.

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THIS!

catlady said:

@12stepCheermom LOL, I've never thought of the inferiority complex. There are many parents like my neighbor that don't allow their kids to participate in "non-sport" activities and for most of them it boils down to safety and funding. Sport status can often provide qualified coaches vs. a sponsor or advisor, it can provide the necessary funding for equipment and uniforms, in some cases allow access to qualified sport medicine personnel, in college it can mean more scholarship opportunity, travel expenses paid vs. fundraising, etc.
I geek on everything from the business perspective and AS is what my kid loves. Being in the "artistic" athlete or entertainment activity category, unfortunately, doesn't bring much to the table in the way of safety and funding in HS and college. Does that change the way I feel about AS? Absolutely not. Do I think it affects the way insurance companies, doctors and outsiders look at HS, AS, and college cheer? Absolutely.

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Well, I would clarify that to say it requires funding and safety and coaches etc. it doesn't provide it. I'm a high school principal in a state where school cheer is recognized by our state athletic association at least tangently...but trust me when I say no funds accompany that whatsoever. And there aren't specific requirements the coaches have to have or equipment needs to be.

However I agree with a pp. Be careful what you wish for. People on these boards get sideways if they're limited from wearing a French maid uniform with a 5 inch bow. Being declared a sanctioned sport comes with a terrible lot of requirements that I can't imagine the AS community being happy about even if they were suddenly "legit."


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