All-Star 2011 Worlds Bids Vs 2012 Worlds Bids

[dmouth11]

It would place a limit on the teams actually competing there. I am not sure it would water down as much because the talent would just make a lateral shift from division to division.

What people are saying though is that there is no "talent" to laterally shift in that scenario. If gyms had 36 true level 5 world medal-ready athletes, then they would already be large. If worlds was large heavy, that might work as people could cut "dead weight" and downsize if necessary, but it's harder to train more athletes and compete in a larger level.

It would be difficult to limit all 6 division to the same specific number because they all vary drastically in size, but maybe we can have some type of proportion algorithm that keeps worlds more or less balanced. Like saying 30 sm sr/ sm coed. 20 medium/moed. and 10 lg senior/ lg coed. I think right now, these reflect the number of teams that if they hit, could actually make finals give or take the judging that day. (As in, I honestly don't think there are more than 30 [that's even high] sm sr teams that have a very good shot at breaking into finals/medaling.) Cut 50% for finals and let the claws come out.

 

[F!ERCE]

Somebody has to pay for the paid & partial bids!

This may not be the place to ask, but does this work out logistically? Like, do the at-larges actually pay for the paids/partials? I've always kinda taken that stance, but...now that I'm thinking...the at-larges pay the USASF their fees, while the individual competition companies pay for the paid teams...correct? So they'd be two separate entities in terms of their bank accounts?

Or am I wrong? I know nothing about the money process so maybe I'm dead wrong...haha

 

[BowsnBling]

the ep's pay the usasf , so in reality it all goes to the usasf.

 

[BlueCat]

This may not be the place to ask, but does this work out logistically? Like, do the at-larges actually pay for the paids/partials? I've always kinda taken that stance, but...now that I'm thinking...the at-larges pay the USASF their fees, while the individual competition companies pay for the paid teams...correct? So they'd be two separate entities in terms of their bank accounts?

Or am I wrong? I know nothing about the money process so maybe I'm dead wrong...haha

The "Paid" bids are simply checks given the gyms. The gyms turn around and pay this to USASF.

 

[BlueCat]

I actually am working on something with someone...

the idea? Only 20 bids are awarded per division. So no more than 20 small senior teams can go to Worlds... but there are 20 chances to go in large senior. Think that would encourage more people to enter large senior?

How do you work out the logistics of awarding these bids?

Also, you need to now find a new revenue source for the USASF, as you have cut into their profit margin at Worlds.

 

[BowsnBling]

The "Paid" bids are simply checks given the gyms. The gyms turn around and pay this to USASF.

Thanks for the clarification, I for some reason I thought it was the other way, seeing we never got a paid bid you would for sure know better then me =)

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Entrance fees are what REALLY pays for bids. You need to get teams to register and spectators in the stands to make the money to pay for them.

 

[tumbleyoda]

You have to drastically revamp the USASF model and show it to be as profitable as the current one in order to reduce the amount of bids offered. I understand what many are saying about too many bids from the cut throat competitive nature of sport, but that business loss of revenue will not be made up by mere spectators at Worlds. Teams and their coaching staffs and families from a distance are not just going to fly to Worlds to just watch the competition. Maybe some local teams but I highly doubt teams on the West Coast who dont get a bid are just going to fly en masse to Worlds just to be spectators.

Now if you reduce the cost to host Worlds by changing the venue and allow teams to set up their own lodging, you probably can do this. But with the deal that is place between Disney and USASF/Varsity I don't see them changing that anytime soon.

I could be wrong on this but it is USASF that tells the EP how many bids they can hand out, based on the EP application to hand out bids. How many teams EP has one year is a determining factor in how many bids they can hand out next year. Ep applies with $$$ to USASF in order to be a bid competition. The fact it is a bid competition is to draw more eligible and non eligible teams to the EP's event. When bid is awarded check is cut to gym to pay USASF from USASF to EP. EP gives checks to Gym. Gym gives check to USASF. USASF can then recycle that money back towards the next year bid $$$. My point being it is a $$$ loop between the USASF, EP and gym that gets the bid. In the case of an at large the $$$ go straight to the USASF. EP only gets entry fees at their event. That is pure profit for USASF, no matter where they choose to use it. And we think they want to willingly give that up?

 

[Cheer4lifeex]

(This could be a real lame idea) What if we specified each full paid/ partial paid/ atlarge bid?
What if each division was allowed to only give a certain amount of bids?

For instance, for each division there were only:

10 full paid bids for large senior, medium senior, and small senior. And for each full paid bid there could match partial paid bid. And for each full paid bid, and partial paid bid there could be half the amount of at-large bids.

So ... 9 full paid bids, 6 partial paid bids, and 5 - at large bids in each division

I chose 9 full paid bids, 6 partial paid bids, and 5 at large bids because it would equal 20 bids for each division. Which I think could be a fair number.

Large Senior: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL
Medium Senior: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL
Small Senior: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL

Large Coed: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL
Medium Coed: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL
Small Coed: 9 FP, 6 PP, 5 AL

So there would be:
56 Full paid bids
36 Partial paid bids
30 At large paid bids
= 120 chances of you getting a bid

However, I do see how there could be a problem for teams "division hopping" if they didn't get a bid in a certain division, so they may switch. But it also may make gyms chose the appropriate division for their team.

This make sense in my head, thoughts?

I honestly don't see how this could work.
There are many teams(for example in large senior)that know they will get a paid bid and don't even try for an at-large/partial paid.
If they did try you're idea those teams could just try for at-larges so their wouldent be as much competition, receive them early in the season, then receive a paid later.
What would happen to those at-large bids?
Just disappear?
I just don't think it could work.

 

[King]

How do you work out the logistics of awarding these bids?

Also, you need to now find a new revenue source for the USASF, as you have cut into their profit margin at Worlds.

Well, the registration system itself would fund the USASF if implemented correctly to run everything. As well there is a bigger idea coming. Ignoring how we get those teams chosen, are you against a max of 20 in a division?

 

[BlueCat]

Well, the registration system itself would fund the USASF if implemented correctly to run everything. As well there is a bigger idea coming. Ignoring how we get those teams chosen, are you against a max of 20 in a division?

No. However, our results at Worlds are not typical. That rule would not likely affect us (or you) as much as it would most other programs.

 

[King]

No. However, our results at Worlds are not typical. That rule would not likely affect us (or you) as much as it would most other programs.

Which brings up a discussion, should most programs be going to Worlds?

 

[ntlgnt1]

I don't see the point in limiting the AL-bids! If the USASF doesn't have a problem with it then, why should anyone else? Just b/c a team gets an AL bid doesn't mean they have to take it or use it. And just because a team doesn't get a paid bid doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete at Worlds or that they aren't good enough to compete w/the so called other top teams! EVERY TEAM IS BEATABLE! Just because a team doesn't look ready for Worlds at a certain competition, doesn't mean they can't step thier game up and bring it once they get there!

I'm certain the amount of slots given is definitely revenue driven. Limiting those slots would most likely drive up the cost and I definitely do not want to pay more then i 'm already paying! If ppl think it's to many teams well better plan your day to see the teams you want to see.

 

[Xtremegirls:)]

Lg AG 3 Full Paid, 4 At Large Total = 7 bids

who are the 7 teams in large all girl? I know the big 3 plus fame and charlotte but who are the other 2?

 

[ntlgnt1]

who are the 7 teams in large all girl? I know the big 3 plus fame and charlotte but who are the other 2?

Fame, Charlotte, All Star One, and Capital Elite!