All-Star Acro&tumbling Vs Traditional Cheer

[yojaehs]

Of course I don't mind!

A&T is currently governed by NCATA (more info at thencata.org). The organization's goal is for the sport to evenutally become recognized as a college sport under the NCAA; they currently have/are working toward emerging sport status (not sure exactly where they are in the process so I can't say with any certainty what the correct current status is). For this reason, they follow all of the NCAA rules and regulations as they apply to other sports (i.e. hours of practice, academic eligibility, etc).

At Gannon, Competitive Cheer is included as a varsity-level sport because the institution recongnizes the program and the team members as student-athletes and treats it as a sport - essentially, this program and its athletes have access to all of the same resources (athletic training, athletic scholarships, etc) as student-athletes on other sports. In addition, as a university we have decided that we will apply and enforce all of the NCAA regulations as if we were governed by the NCAA - so all of the same requirements in terms of academic eligibility, number of hours permitted, etc will apply to the competitive cheer team. So even though we're not officially recognized by the NCAA, we are a sport in the school's mind - not sure if that helps to clarify. I know that at Gannon, competitive cheer isn't intended to count for Title IX, which is a factor as well.

I hope that answers your questions, but feel free to ask further if I wasn't clear! This is one of the toughest things about "cheering" in college -whether referring to A&T, STUNT, competitive cheer or sideline cheer - there are so many options and so many interpretations that it can be very confusing. This is how we're structuring things at Gannon, and I'm very optimistic about the opportunities and choices it provides for cheerleaders who are looking to continue building their skills in college!

Multiple options, multiple scholarships, multiple ways to recognize cheerleaders as athletes. I'm a fan Go Gannon!!!


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[Gannon Coach]

If its legal I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to via A&T. I would see how the Varsity rule that a University is only allowed to compete in One national would prevent them. But then again that doesn't stop STUNT so maybe it's possible.


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From my understanding, it is the NCATA (governing body for A&T) that doesn't allow any crossover of A&T student-athletes to cheer teams, not an NCAA policy that prohibits it. A&T coaches and athletes will tell you that A&T is not cheer because the format is so different, but that the skill set required is similar to that of competitive cheer. This is where I could see there being an NCAA issue with doing both down the road when the sport does become recognized, as it would be similar to the football/rugby analogy as compared to the football/track analogy.

 

[Gannon Coach]

Multiple options, multiple scholarships, multiple ways to recognize cheerleaders as athletes. I'm a fan Go Gannon!!!


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My thoughts EXACTLY - one of the many reasons I took the job! Thanks for your support!

 

[Deleted member 28787]

I'm sorry if someone already addressed this.
How will Acro & Tumbling translate into male participation? I'm VERY interested and it seems like the coolest idea after researching it for the last half hour. Will it be strictly all-girl or maybe CoEd? Or even better... All male and all girl teams. Especially considering there's a ton of talented male flyers. #ItsRainingMen


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[mariahnicole1216]

Of course I don't mind!

A&T is currently governed by NCATA (more info at thencata.org). The organization's goal is for the sport to evenutally become recognized as a college sport under the NCAA; they currently have/are working toward emerging sport status (not sure exactly where they are in the process so I can't say with any certainty what the correct current status is). For this reason, they follow all of the NCAA rules and regulations as they apply to other sports (i.e. hours of practice, academic eligibility, etc).

At Gannon, Competitive Cheer is included as a varsity-level sport because the institution recongnizes the program and the team members as student-athletes and treats it as a sport - essentially, this program and its athletes have access to all of the same resources (athletic training, athletic scholarships, etc) as student-athletes on other sports. In addition, as a university we have decided that we will apply and enforce all of the NCAA regulations as if we were governed by the NCAA - so all of the same requirements in terms of academic eligibility, number of hours permitted, etc will apply to the competitive cheer team. So even though we're not officially recognized by the NCAA, we are a sport in the school's mind - not sure if that helps to clarify. I know that at Gannon, competitive cheer isn't intended to count for Title IX, which is a factor as well.

I hope that answers your questions, but feel free to ask further if I wasn't clear! This is one of the toughest things about "cheering" in college -whether referring to A&T, STUNT, competitive cheer or sideline cheer - there are so many options and so many interpretations that it can be very confusing. This is how we're structuring things at Gannon, and I'm very optimistic about the opportunities and choices it provides for cheerleaders who are looking to continue building their skills in college!

This sounds literally perfect. Something for everyone! I hope a lot of schools follow this model.

 

[Gannon Coach]

This sounds literally perfect. Something for everyone! I hope a lot of schools follow this model.

I hope so too! I'm sure it's not perfect and there will be kinks to work out as both programs grow and evolve, but I think it's a great starting point - and, like you said, something for everyone. It provides options, and considering how few opportunities there traditionally were/are for cheerleaders to receive athletic scholarships or even be treated like student-athletes, I'm excited we're able to offer them.

All of the NCAA and sport/not a sport conversation aside (which is certainly an important dialogue), I think offering both programs plus the gameday team speaks volumes of the institution's support of this "type" of athlete - and there's a lot to be said for that.

 

[Gannon Coach]

I'm sorry if someone already addressed this.
How will Acro & Tumbling translate into male participation? I'm VERY interested and it seems like the coolest idea after researching it for the last half hour. Will it be strictly all-girl or maybe CoEd? Or even better... All male and all girl teams. Especially considering there's a ton of talented male flyers. #ItsRainingMen


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As of right now, A&T is strictly all-girl. Part of the reason for this is a focus on creating a new female sport opportunity that allows institutions to use A&T to offset high-participation male sports for Title IX purposes. I don't think a co-ed/all male program is completely out of the question (never say never!), though its my personal opinion that is probabaly a long way off and not really even on the radar at this point in time.

 

[Bling it On]

After watching half a dozen videos of A&T I am of course impressed with the level of athleticism and talent. However, it was just sooooooo slow moving and I was totally turned off by the boring uniforms and the lack of bows or even so much as a sparkly headband I really WANTED to like this and see it for an opportunity for all star cheerleaders to continue to do what they love but as AMAZING as these athletes were the routines just could't hold my attention. I found it lacking any showmanship or entertainment value whatsoever. I feel guilty because I know I should be able to enjoy it just for the fantastic display of elite tumbling and stunting but by subtracting the entertainment elements that make me love so much to watch All Star routines I just could not make myself enjoy watching the A&T. Sorry.


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[MissCongeniality]

After watching half a dozen videos of A&T I am of course impressed with the level of athleticism and talent. However, it was just sooooooo slow moving and I was totally turned off by the boring uniforms and the lack of bows or even so much as a sparkly headband I really WANTED to like this and see it for an opportunity for all star cheerleaders to continue to do what they love but as AMAZING as these athletes were the routines just could't hold my attention. I found it lacking any showmanship or entertainment value whatsoever. I feel guilty because I know I should be able to enjoy it just for the fantastic display of elite tumbling and stunting but by subtracting the entertainment elements that make me love so much to watch All Star routines I just could not make myself enjoy watching the A&T. Sorry.


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It's interesting that you bring this up because I was thinking about this and how it actually ties in with that whole cheerlebrity debate that cropped up on the video thread. A&T to me seems to be the sport attracting the hugely talented (for talents sake cheerlebrities) versus the talented but better known for what they look like cheerlebrities. Please don't misunderstand, Kiara and Kelsey are absolutely gorgeous girls, but what they are best known for is their over the top talent and skill...not their abs or pouf. A&T is a real sport where talent/skill is the ultimate focus so to those in the current Allstar industry where blingy uniforms and hair are, without doubt, a large part of the discussion...it IS very different.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Now that A&T is picking up steam, I might try to check in to a match or two. I didn't like the side-by-side format of STUNT, they don't do that in A&T correct?

 

[coachrah]

The NCAA doesn't stop someone from playing football and running track or playing baseball and cheering. Why would they stop someone from A&T and cheering if they are considered different activities?

The NCAA has rules regarding athletic participation and is determined by playing season. A and T has a definitive declared playing season. A and T's pre-season is in the fall. The start day for competition is in February. The post-season play (National Championship) is last week of April. An athlete would not be prevented from participation by the NCAA rule book if their sport/activity/club sport did not interfere with the start of competition for the sport they are recruited in. Your example of a football player and a track athlete would not be an NCAA rule violation if their actual start date for competition season does not cross (although NCAA football and basketball have different rules vs "other" sports.) However, the likelihood that the football coach (or vice versa for track coach) allowing a player to essentially not have dedicated down time might be a personal choice (think academic standing and injury overuse) would (I am guessing) be a discussion between both programs. For instance if a recruited female soccer player also wanted to participate in A and T many scenarios need to be discussed. Soccer would be out of season during A and T's actual start of competition declaration. However, would an A and T coach want to share that player's injuries (as an example). Secondly, some sports are classified as either a head count or equivalency sport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_(NCAA) If that soccer player had a scholarship and A and T also offered a scholarship, the "countable aid" would be combined per their equivalency quotas. So if Soccer had countable aid out for $20,00.00 dollars and the shared sport had countable aid out for $ 20,00.00 those numbers would be combined and assumed by each program. There is alot up for consideration when "sharing" an athlete especially since the NCAA has an academic standard for eligibility to play. As for a cheerleading athlete being shared with any NCAA varsity sport program, it would be difficult. Cheerleading typically spans the entire year if they have both football and basketball duties. Cheerleading also has no regulation, and though many Universities DO provide trainers and other resources to their cheer teams...many do not. If I were to "share" a cheerleader as a part of my program ( I would not because we have the same season), I would want to know that the coach of the activity shared a philosophy in safety. Concussion management for one. My athletes do not tumble on days that our strength and conditioning staff has facilitated exercises for lower body strength and allows a day for recovery to prevent injuries. We have a very regulated program and a training regimen for injury prevention based on science which takes in the entire season as a whole. Most varsity sport teams also have other "imposed" NCAA rules or university specific rules that many cheer teams do not. I would want to be certain that anyone I were to roster understood compliance rules across the board (not just while in season) and on my team. Assuming double duty is alot to manage for the athlete at the collegiate level. I don't think across the board in collegiate sports one can find a ton of individuals who participates on several teams, and while it can be done, in my opinion it is rare.

 

[Bling it On]

It's interesting that you bring this up because I was thinking about this and how it actually ties in with that whole cheerlebrity debate that cropped up on the video thread. A&T to me seems to be the sport attracting the hugely talented (for talents sake cheerlebrities) versus the talented but better known for what they look like cheerlebrities. Please don't misunderstand, Kiara and Kelsey are absolutely gorgeous girls, but what they are best known for is their over the top talent and skill...not their abs or pouf. A&T is a real sport where talent/skill is the ultimate focus so to those in the current Allstar industry where blingy uniforms and hair are, without doubt, a large part of the discussion...it IS very different.

It's been sorta bothering me that A&T didn't appeal to me cause I'm not so shallow that I can't see the athlete past the glitter. But I do love the All Star uniforms and the bows and the excitement of the fast pace...all the entertainment aspects. I don't know maybe its my age cause I'm mentally making a parallel between how back in my day us girls wore pinstriped pantsuits with men's ties, traded our contacts for glasses and severe hairstyles to 'butch' ourselves up in order to be taken seriously in the work place and All Star Cheer being stripped of all the attractive entertainment elements in order to be taken seriously as a sport. I guess I just really wish that All Star Cheer could be widely accepted for the serious sport it already is without having to compromise. I realize A&T is not the same as All Star Cheer exactly. Maybe it will grown on me.


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[MissCongeniality]

It's been sorta bothering me that A&T didn't appeal to me cause I'm not so shallow that I can't see the athlete past the glitter. But I do love the All Star uniforms and the bows and the excitement of the fast pace...all the entertainment aspects. I don't know maybe its my age cause I'm mentally making a parallel between how back in my day us girls wore pinstriped pantsuits with men's ties, traded our contacts for glasses and severe hairstyles to 'butch' ourselves up in order to be taken seriously in the work place and All Star Cheer being stripped of all the attractive entertainment elements in order to be taken seriously as a sport. I guess I just really wish that All Star Cheer could be widely accepted for the serious sport it already is without having to compromise. I realize A&T is not the same as All Star Cheer exactly. Maybe it will grown on me.


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I agree. I kind of view it as a continuum. It started with sideline. Sideline overall earns the reputation of "look cute, wave your poms, smile". Now we know, in many cases it is far more than that...but to the public...that is sideline. So here comes Allstar...Keep the sideline uniforms, with some changes, but up the level of athleticism!

Also out of sideline comes "professional cheerleading" (ie Miami Heat ---purposely not choosing the most well known squad for geographic reasons ) Anyway...this is sideline cheer that goes the purely appearance/flash route. Tons of bling, skimpy uniforms, lots of make up. Can these girl tumble? That's not the focus and probably not something you'd want to attempt in many of those uniforms.

So you have Pro Cheer - Sideline - AllStar on the continuum. Now add in A&T.
Pro Cheer - Sideline - AllStar - A&T
They're all forms of "cheerleading", but with the focus being on different aspects. As AllStar families (I am also a sideline cheer mom) that is what we are used to! Looking at the other options available is understandably "different". A&T is head over heels going to be accepted as a "sport" in the public eye long before professional cheer is. That doesn't make one or the other (or anything in between) "wrong"... They're just different and everyone needs to choose what is right for them.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

Does anyone else feel like STUNT is a knockoff of A&T?

 

[yojaehs]

When watching A&T remove the thoughts of "cheerleading". EXTREMELY tough to do. But in order to appreciate it I think one has to. It's different. A&T is trying to be different, not an extension of cheer (but in all honesty it is) but in order to understand it you have to separate it. It has a code of points, it's has a structure both of which are alien to the cheer world. I will agree with ALL that the pace is way too slow, borderline boring to watch because of the downtime. I think that will just take time to sort out. It is brand new and will have some growing pains. I do love the numbers and the lack of sparkle (honestly bc I think cheer is getting out of control).



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