All-Star Battle Under The Big Top Schedule, Teams, And Thoughts

[cheers2u]

:banghead::deadhorse::cow::cookie:

First and foremost, I am not being a poor sport for this post. My first reply to MB was a simple response to a similar occurrence.

I get the whole beating a dead horse deal and I usually keep my mouth closed on the boards. So I am going to throw this out there once again and be done with it. While this is a constant occurrence it is sometimes nice to be reassured that you are not the only one it happens to. I can also tell you how much FUN it is consoling and explaining to your heartbroken CP what happened ONCE AGAIN year after year (AND YES WE ALL LIKELY HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION MORE THAN ONCE). I get it.. it comes with the sport. Been doing this long enough to get it over and over again. Also, been doing it long enough to know scoring and how things are judged and why. Not my first rodeo. But it does not mean it does not kill you inside all over again when it does. It is no fun being on the other end.
There, I am done.

 

[cheerfan27]

Cheerfan27-- I find it very interesting that you take a personal character "stab" (for lack of a better word) at me, when not once did I say anything negative about platinum. I even complemented the whole gym.. " I am not hating on the stingrays, they are an amazing gym, with amazing athletes. I am just confused.. Congrats to Orange and Top Gun for their paid bids to worlds!" I mearly stated my confusion, and some facts.

This was my first experience at Battle Under the Big Top. I did not look at half of the picture, I obivously can read a final results sheet. I see that the score difference was in the performance collumn. Which is why I posted in the first place. I was hoping to find out what the judges where judging on the performance score sheet. I have gotten some good answers to this, but not a clear cut answer. I still don't understand how dropped stunt, and bobbles both days can out score a team without either. In my opinion, dropped stunts and bobbles should count against your performance score.

I do pose another question: Do large teams tend to score higher on performance than small teams?

My mistake was saying the names of the teams. I sincerely apologize for that. My original post was not meant to take "anything" away from Platinum. I was and still am a "good sport". Again, it was mearly for expressing confusion on the scoring aspect of the competition.

My hope is for everyone to have a safe and wonderful competiton season.

Just trying to help clear up your confusion as you said you were confused and didn't mention the performance score. But of course when you post anything on here expect people to reply and have different views.

 

[carolinagirl823]

OK. Read the whole thread (yes, all 38 pages.) And watched all the videos (that part was way more fun than reading most of this...)

I'm no judge...or coach...or anything. But I'm throwing in my 2 cents anyway, for which I will be probably be fried. So here it is: Teal Army, this is mostly a question for you. About a week ago, we all enjoyed 7 pages of bantering back and forth about the legality of parts of SE's routine. The "Teal Army" side of the argument seemed to be, for the most part, that Courtney knows what she is doing and we're all a bunch of jealous haters who sit around looking for reasons to pick on SE. The other side, for the most part, seemed to be "Why is SE wasting time practicing something they know they can't compete, just to be cutting edge??? Seems silly and dangerous...and seems like maybe someone SHOULD point it out." (I've nicely grabbed some quotes from that thread since it's now locked so you don't HAVE TO go searching for it if you don't want to - but you're welcome to. They're down below).

Then this comp and they don't get the paid bid they wanted. And what's the FIRST excuse that's thrown out? Well..."We put that routine together in literally a week!"

So my question is this: Which is it? It IS a good idea to waste time learning a a routine that has illegal elements to perform at a showcase...or it is a good idea to spend more than a week putting together a legal routine for a very important bid comp (going against 5 other Worlds medalists for 2 paid bids) that is 2 weeks after the showcase?

Yes, I am being a little facetious. Just pointing out that when the teal army comes running out, guns blazing, yelling that we're all just jealous haters and we all say "Um...no...we're just wondering why you're working on illegal stunts for a showcase when you should be working on legal stunts that you CAN compete..." don't be so quick to say, essentially, "Shut up. We know what we're doing." Maybe, just maybe...every once in awhile...someone might be just trying to throw some useful info your way.

Just appears that "the other side" may have been right in this case - if the coach(es) knew it was illegal, it appears it wasn't a good idea to waste time working on it. If they didn't know, then it appears some useful info came out of that thread being posted, as last minute changes were obviously made.



From the illegal elements thread:

--"In every sport I participated in, there were always one or two coaches who seemed to be "smarter" than everyone else, who could get away with things that others could not or would not even try, who would push to bend the rules as far as they could and would only back down if they were pushed back very hard by an equally strong person. IMO Courtney is one of those types of coaches. Not that it is good or bad, just is.​

But I also believe that by whatever their major competitions are the elements will either be removed or altered to fit enough of the rules and if there is a grey area, that is where it will try to be placed. I just hope the numerous teams, programs and coaches that follow that program and try so hard to be just like them don't try to do the same thing because they don't have the "pull" of this program and it wont work out to good for them."​

--"You do know this was an event for only Cheer Extreme right? X-Evolution...our own awesome, individual, and unique event "
--" I am not a coach, and I will defer to Courtney bc I trust her judgement and it seems to me like she knows what's she's doing after all these years."

--"I'm just a nobody excheer mom of a girl who no longer cheers but LOVE to come on here and youtube and watch videos of all these amazing teams. I have this question to pose... Even IF this was a private showcase having nothing to do with the judging or competitive world shouldn't teams only be doing or practicing stunts that are Legal and allowed within the realm of the USASF? Although I don't know all the ins and outs of the USASF and their rules, my understanding of the purpose for them is to establish guidelines within the sport to keep our children safe and not performing stunts and skills that could be more dangerous than what they are already expected to do. I just don't understand how it's only a showcase is an answer for an athlete doing such a dangerous skill. I know how many weeks and weeks it would take my daughter's teams back in the day to master a pyramid I don't know why they would work so hard on skills like that before the season starts if they are not legal. My daughter's teams used to goof around at the end of the season and maybe make up stunts and pyramids at the END of the season but never during the season and always with sanctioned skills."

I don't really think that they are using the one week thing as an excuse. I think it was just one of the athletes saying something to the extent of "We put this routine together in a week, imagine what we can do in the next 5 months". I don't think it had any sort of negative connotation to it.

I also think that you bring up a very interesting point in terms of wasting time with skills that you aren't going to use in competition. I guess I am kind of on the side where I like to try interesting and new things even if they are unrelated to our long term goal. (I blame it on my ADD) I think that it helps to keep athletes from getting bored, so I don't really see it as a waste of time. I can definitely see the other side of things too though. I think it is just one of those things where coaching strategies and styles have to be adapted to the personalities of the athletes on the team. I know that last season senior elite didn't make many changes like that throughout the season and pretty much stuck to just practicing what they would be competing at worlds for like 8 months. It is interesting to compare the two approaches.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I should probably clarify, I am really just playing devil's advocate from the other thread. I actually reeeeally like SE's routine (and I liked the one they did at X Evolution). So this certainly wasn't to say anything about the girls or the routine. Just saying that not everyone is always "hating" - sometimes people are genuinely curious about something. So maybe be a little less quick to jump all over people - even people who sometimes do hate.

You have your routines mixed up. No excuses from anyone on SE. We did great, but not good enough this weekend. The illegality was in Co-ed and changed. They hit that both days. SE has not had questions of illegality except the flip over in the pyramid (SE got high level 5 pyramid) which was incorrect and in the transition to the second stunt (my favorite thing about this new routine is transitions) which long has had any assistance removed. SE's routine changed on the staffs decision over a 2 week period before the competition. It had nothing to do with illegalities.

 

[cheerinfo]

First and foremost, I am not being a poor sport for this post. My first reply to MB was a simple response to a similar occurrence.

I get the whole beating a dead horse deal and I usually keep my mouth closed on the boards. So I am going to throw this out there once again and be done with it. While this is a constant occurrence it is sometimes nice to be reassured that you are not the only one it happens to. I can also tell you how much FUN it is consoling and explaining to your heartbroken CP what happened ONCE AGAIN year after year (AND YES WE ALL LIKELY HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION MORE THAN ONCE). I get it.. it comes with the sport. Been doing this long enough to get it over and over again. Also, been doing it long enough to know scoring and how things are judged and why. Not my first rodeo. But it does not mean it does not kill you inside all over again when it does. It is no fun being on the other end.
There, I am done.

cheers2u - Well I can tell you that I am a parent to two cheerleaders, a current judge of 11 years, a previous coach as well as a previous all star director. So I understand all aspects of this opinion. However, after being a cheer parent for 9 years and a judge for 11 years, I don't find it hard to explain these situations at all to my children or other people who question it. I simply say to my kids that you did all you could, sometimes things don't come out the way we want them. I tell my girls this is true not only in cheerleading, but in life. I tell them I understand disappointment, but on any given day, the results could have been different and you have to move on and learn from it.

I cannot tell you how tired the whole "they only won because of their name" or "we should have won because we hit" or "we had harder elements" or whatever complaints about not winning have become. If your routine hits the scoresheet best and you have the least amount of mistakes THAT weekend, chances are, you are going to win. I think my explanation to MB applies universally to just about every time someone says "we should have won. why didn't we win?" Chances are, your routine just wasn't as good on THAT scoresheet on THAT day. Hence, my beating a dead horse, head against a brick wall emoticons.

NOW...that does not mean that there will NEVER EVER be human error or NEVER be a wrong outcome...but your response to your CP should always be the same. "Did you do YOUR best? Then ok. In 24 hours, no one of importance to your life will care. Now let's go eat or shop." My kids do not cry if they don't win. They don't cry if they make a mistake. They don't cry if their team has a less than amazing performance. I have taught them to win and lose graciously (at least publicly LOL). And because of that, I deal with a lot less tears and drama and anger at other teams. You may handle it differently, but I am just (in a long winded way) explaining WHY I used those emoticons. And if your CP is young...trust me, adopt this attitude and save yourself years of drama to come LOL! Cuz it COULD get worse hahaha! Good luck, and I hope you don't have to deal with many of "those" situations in the future.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I don't really think that they are using the one week thing as an excuse. I think it was just one of the athletes saying something to the extent of "We put this routine together in a week, imagine what we can do in the next 5 months". I don't think it had any sort of negative connotation to it.

I also think that you bring up a very interesting point in terms of wasting time with skills that you aren't going to use in competition. I guess I am kind of on the side where I like to try interesting and new things even if they are unrelated to our long term goal. (I blame it on my ADD) I think that it helps to keep athletes from getting bored, so I don't really see it as a waste of time. I can definitely see the other side of things too though. I think it is just one of those things where coaching strategies and styles have to be adapted to the personalities of the athletes on the team. I know that last season senior elite didn't make many changes like that throughout the season and pretty much stuck to just practicing what they would be competing at worlds for like 8 months. It is interesting to compare the two approaches.

I do think 5 months the routine will be amazing. I'm more excited for Worlds this year than any other. May have to drag my kids down to watch! And obviously I'm no coach (can you imagine??? Maybe Fetus Level one-fourth?) so I do find it interesting to see the different methods to get to the same goal. Obvioulsy I'm not a teal fan, but equally as obviously she's doing something right.

You have your routines mixed up. No excuses from anyone on SE. We did great, but not good enough this weekend. The illegality was in Co-ed and changed. They hit that both days. SE has not had questions of illegality except the flip over in the pyramid (SE got high level 5 pyramid) which was incorrect and in the transition to the second stunt (my favorite thing about this new routine is transitions) which long has had any assistance removed. SE's routine changed on the staffs decision over a 2 week period before the competition. It had nothing to do with illegalities.

I tried to go back and re-read the thread and I thought it seemed to be mostly SE everyone was talking about. I'm at work so I'll have to sneak and re-read it, although I certainly think you're probably right, since you would clearly know better than I. Like I said, just really playing devil's advocate. Interesting reading, either way. As usual, I'll stick by my stance of it really doesn't matter a hill of beans to me or my level 2/3 kids LOL - all these teams are amazing to me (now some of the fans? Not quite as amazing... ) I just like the discussion on here.

 

[greenmom]

cheers2u - Well I can tell you that I am a parent to two cheerleaders, a current judge of 11 years, a previous coach as well as a previous all star director. So I understand all aspects of this opinion. However, after being a cheer parent for 9 years and a judge for 11 years, I don't find it hard to explain these situations at all to my children or other people who question it. I simply say to my kids that you did all you could, sometimes things don't come out the way we want them. I tell my girls this is true not only in cheerleading, but in life. I tell them I understand disappointment, but on any given day, the results could have been different and you have to move on and learn from it.

I cannot tell you how tired the whole "they only won because of their name" or "we should have won because we hit" or "we had harder elements" or whatever complaints about not winning have become. If your routine hits the scoresheet best and you have the least amount of mistakes THAT weekend, chances are, you are going to win. I think my explanation to MB applies universally to just about every time someone says "we should have won. why didn't we win?" Chances are, your routine just wasn't as good on THAT scoresheet on THAT day. Hence, my beating a dead horse, head against a brick wall emoticons.

NOW...that does not mean that there will NEVER EVER be human error or NEVER be a wrong outcome...but your response to your CP should always be the same. "Did you do YOUR best? Then ok. In 24 hours, no one of importance to your life will care. Now let's go eat or shop." My kids do not cry if they don't win. They don't cry if they make a mistake. They don't cry if their team has a less than amazing performance. I have taught them to win and lose graciously (at least publicly LOL). And because of that, I deal with a lot less tears and drama and anger at other teams. You may handle it differently, but I am just (in a long winded way) explaining WHY I used those emoticons. And if your CP is young...trust me, adopt this attitude and save yourself years of drama to come LOL! Cuz it COULD get worse hahaha! Good luck, and I hope you don't have to deal with many of "those" situations in the future.

GREAT ADVICE! I am sick of hearing this too - "they only won because of their name" or "we should have won because we hit" I use a lot of the same types of concepts with my child. If something doesnt hit or doesn't go just like she had hoped I ask her if she gave 100% and tried her best and when she says yes i tell her thats all you can do and it is in the JUDGES hands now. Also - I cannot stand the same gym stating they got cheated by BUTBT again. It comes from the top and from SOME of the parents, and then you see it trickle onto these kid's FB pages....not a good lesson to teach these kids! [this has nothing to do with CEA by the way!!]

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I tried to go back and re-read the thread and I thought it seemed to be mostly SE everyone was talking about. I'm at work so I'll have to sneak and re-read it, although I certainly think you're probably right, since you would clearly know better than I. Like I said, just really playing devil's advocate. Interesting reading, either way. As usual, I'll stick by my stance of it really doesn't matter a hill of beans to me or my level 2/3 kids LOL - all these teams are amazing to me (now some of the fans? Not quite as amazing... ) I just like the discussion on here.

You know, I really do not know what has gone on since the competition, but I know that SE was under strict orders to keep their mouths shut and for the most part I hear that has happened with an exception or two on Twitter early on. We have nothing to complain about, we did change the routine and it was not performed at a level that warrented a bid as compared to TG and Orange. No arguments from anyone associated with SE that has any sense at all. Now, big gyms, multiple locations, athletes all dressed the same, does stuff happen that reflects on SE that may not be them? You are darn tooting. Do some kids say things that sound like bad blood on Twitter or FacebooK? I guarantee it. I do not have any problems with questions about legality or routines and the general discussion and certainly nothing you have posted. I just do not want anyone getting the impression that the athletes and parents associated with SE are complaining and making excuses about this weekend. We are ecstatic to have done as well as we did. We agree with the judges and ASC staff's opinion and are now trying to polish the new routine.

 

[cheers2u]

cheers2u - Well I can tell you that I am a parent to two cheerleaders, a current judge of 11 years, a previous coach as well as a previous all star director. So I understand all aspects of this opinion. However, after being a cheer parent for 9 years and a judge for 11 years, I don't find it hard to explain these situations at all to my children or other people who question it. I simply say to my kids that you did all you could, sometimes things don't come out the way we want them. I tell my girls this is true not only in cheerleading, but in life. I tell them I understand disappointment, but on any given day, the results could have been different and you have to move on and learn from it.

I cannot tell you how tired the whole "they only won because of their name" or "we should have won because we hit" or "we had harder elements" or whatever complaints about not winning have become. If your routine hits the scoresheet best and you have the least amount of mistakes THAT weekend, chances are, you are going to win. I think my explanation to MB applies universally to just about every time someone says "we should have won. why didn't we win?" Chances are, your routine just wasn't as good on THAT scoresheet on THAT day. Hence, my beating a dead horse, head against a brick wall emoticons.

NOW...that does not mean that there will NEVER EVER be human error or NEVER be a wrong outcome...but your response to your CP should always be the same. "Did you do YOUR best? Then ok. In 24 hours, no one of importance to your life will care. Now let's go eat or shop." My kids do not cry if they don't win. They don't cry if they make a mistake. They don't cry if their team has a less than amazing performance. I have taught them to win and lose graciously (at least publicly LOL). And because of that, I deal with a lot less tears and drama and anger at other teams. You may handle it differently, but I am just (in a long winded way) explaining WHY I used those emoticons. And if your CP is young...trust me, adopt this attitude and save yourself years of drama to come LOL! Cuz it COULD get worse hahaha! Good luck, and I hope you don't have to deal with many of "those" situations in the future.

There is very little here I disagree with. Your practices with your CP's reflect very much what takes place in our home. I appreciate you sharing. However, as said before, it is sometimes comforting to know when a similar situation has happened to someone else and that was my point. It does get worse and it does get better. Some days it is fair, some days it is not and we just deal with what is tossed our way and move on. Excuses irritate me more than anything and I have also had my fair share of listening to the silliness (The "WE GOT ROBBED" about sends me off a cliff ) . Some legit, some not so much. Comes with the territory.
FYI, I do let mine cry EVERY so often. Sometimes you just have to get it out and then move on.

 

[mstealtoyou]

I thought it was a great weekend. Starship Trooper smiled at me on Sunday. Made my day! LMAO

 

[cheers2u]

GREAT ADVICE! I am sick of hearing this too - "they only won because of their name" or "we should have won because we hit" I use a lot of the same types of concepts with my child. If something doesnt hit or doesn't go just like she had hoped I ask her if she gave 100% and tried her best and when she says yes i tell her thats all you can do and it is in the JUDGES hands now. Also - I cannot stand the same gym stating they got cheated by BUTBT again. It comes from the top and from SOME of the parents, and then you see it trickle onto these kid's FB pages....not a good lesson to teach these kids! [this has nothing to do with CEA by the way!!]

Sometimes I really HATE FB and T! I guess that's why I keep my kids passwords after I FINALLY gave in and let them have an FB? And should they attempt to change passwords or to create another FB/T without my knowledge, well....... .

 

[KB_Legend]

I thought it was a great weekend. Starship Trooper smiled at me on Sunday. Made my day! LMAO

Missy, I saw Fernando as well as Nelson and his (much ) better half, how did I never run into you?!

 

[greenmom]

Sometimes I really HATE FB and T! I guess that's why I keep my kids passwords after I FINALLY gave in and let them have an FB? And should they attempt to change passwords or to create another FB/T without my knowledge, well....... .

looks like we have something else in common when it comes to parenting. my kids have to make me aware of any changes to their passwords, and i monitor it very closely. if they ever change their passwords...they know their account will be shut down, and if they ever posted this unfair crap about judges etc. - well i dont even like thinking about how i would handle that :banghead: They dont have a T so we dont have to worry about that as of yet.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I thought it was a great weekend. Starship Trooper smiled at me on Sunday. Made my day! LMAO

It was a mistake.

 

[mstealtoyou]

This is a semi funny story depending on who you are. LOL

My little CP tweeted on Saturday that she was going fishing for some rays or something like that. (She went against Green) She didn't mention it to me until she said that Level5Mom had re tweeted what she said. I was mortified and told her to delete it at which point my middle daughter says "It's too late now if it's been re tweeted, the whole world's seen it now" So luckily I ran into Joanne pretty early in the day so I could say how sorry I was about the tweet and that I had talked to little CP about it and asked her not to write such things again. (She's 12) Joanne was very gracious about it and said she took it as all in good fun, which was great because little CP, I think is still learning.

But imagine how disastrous that could have been if the wrong person had read it. Maybe thinking she and her team were cocky and had big heads. Imagine how much trouble she would have been in to have been quoted in a Fierceboard thread with what she had said and had every Suzie commenting on it.

So as a public service announcement I'd like to ask that if anyone see's my kids posting anything that might be misconstrued as unsportsmanlike or out of line to please text me, facebook me, message me here and believe you me I WILL take care of it with the quickness. Ms Missy doesn't play that!!