All-Star Crossovers - Yay Or Nay?

[mstealtoyou]

I know what you mean. If all but 3 or 4 of the members of a team cross over to another team, of the same level or a level 4, then what is the need for the second team?
I will be the bad guy who brings this up because I already did in the other thread sort of, but a level 5 team has 23 athletes listed and all but 4 of those athletes cross over to other level 5 teams, majority worlds teams. They can do what they please because it isn't illegal, but what is the reason of having that team? I am like you lakerfantlc in that I want to understand the reason and thinking behind having a team with that many crossovers.

*As I said in the other thread where I sort of brought this up this is nothing against that team because it is probably one of the few that I am truly excited to see this coming season because of all the talent that is on it.

Are we talking about Sm Jr's?? If I thought anybody really cared I might be tempted to get drug into a crossover discussion. As it is. I believe that no matter what is said or what examples are given they will just be twisted and turned until someone is telling me that I'm not being truthful and I refuse to be subjected to that. Sincere offer. If someone ever wanted to have this discussion IN PERSON with me face to face (and I could bring along my kid who can tell you that part of her success has come from double teaming) so my words aren't twisted and we could have rational, open minded discussion on both sides of the argument I would agree to do so. Until then........I don't feel like we owe anyone an explanation. Crossing over might not work for everyone.......and that's ok......they don't have to do it. But it does work for us and we won't stop until it's illegal.

And I'm sorry ztaprincess I really like you but you know this conversation never ends well.

Edited to add.........I've already stated the "Rule" about doing your age appropriate team first so if you're going to talk about it at least call it what it is. Sm Jr is their team. They crossover to a Worlds team. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!

 

[mstealtoyou]

I think there needs to be a rule period that states athletes on Worlds teams cannot compete on any other team from their gym in any other competition.

So forgive me for asking, I just want to understand what you mean.

So if Medium Coed goes to Big Top you don't want a kid from that team to be able to compete with Jr 5 at NCA even though Med Coed isn't there?

 

[cheermommaRN]

This conversation never ends well on the boards so I don't know why we keep rehashing it. It seems people are talking about two different things...1. Sandbagging and 2. Crossovers. To me there is a difference. If you hold an open tryout to field a team for the "experience" of going to a nationals (i.e. win an easy jacket) that is sandbagging. If you are a small gym and rely on crossovers to field competitive teams, I can agree with that. If your crossing half your kids to 3 different teams and have level 5 kids filling a level 2 team, then maybe it's not the most responsible use of them.
I personally have no problem with how CEA does their crossing over, it doesn't appear that they drop these kids in level, just different ages. If a Jr 5 kid wants to crossover to SrElite, they are both level 5 teams so what is the big deal. Now if they were crossing their Jr 5 kids to a Sr 2 team, maybe there would be a raised eyebrow....

 

[SarahS]

Are we talking about Sm Jr's??

(snip)

Edited to add.........I've already stated the "Rule" about doing your age appropriate team first so if you're going to talk about it at least call it what it is. Sm Jr is their team. They crossover to a Worlds team. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!

I understand that CEA does crossovers different than many other gyms, but I don't understand why there has been so much animosity against this sm jr team on this thread - I really don't. If they took a majority of world's team athletes and crossed them over to, say, a junior 2 team, then crying foul (even though it is legal under current rules) would at least seem more legit, but for goodness sake, these are junior-aged athletes who are crossing from a level 5 team to another level 5 team! I cannot find ANYTHING wrong with that.

 

[CheerBank]

So forgive me for asking, I just want to understand what you mean.

So if Medium Coed goes to Big Top you don't want a kid from that team to be able to compete with Jr 5 at NCA even though Med Coed isn't there?

I was referring more to a kid on a Worlds team competing on a lower level team rather than another level 5 team. And jr5 is a sore subject because they used to compete at Worlds.

However - there's a gym here who took their Worlds team and competed with it at US Finals in Virginia Beach as a SSR. I don't think that should be allowed.

 

[mia4life06]

The longer I've been an all-star parent, the crankier crossovers make me. I've seen it when it's for that one "special" cp who needs to be challenged on a team above her peer's team to a higher level team. I've seen it where coaches have done it to appease parents and then don't reprimand the kids when they no longer want to make an effort on the lower team. I've seen it where half the gym is part of a second team just so the second team can exist. I've seen it where a kid truly just loves to cheer and will take the opportunity and work hard at any and every team they are placed on regardless of the level. I personally took a stand against my cp double dipping as we call it because I felt not enough could be devoted to either team especially at competitions when the teams were competing too closely together and there was no recovery time in between.

What bothers me though is when kids who are on Level 4 or 5 teams are then also cheering for level 2 teams. I really feel there should be some universal rule made about athletes not being able to cheer up or down more than one level, and if they are on a Worlds team they should not be allow to crossover at all to a lower level, even a level 4. Imho.

Nope don't start using them lol. . . . for competition like UCA Nationals it will get really crazy if you have a lot of crossovers. . . .

 

[ACEDAD]

I think every athlete should be required to cross over to at least one other team. And carry a hand gun. Mandatory. It would cut down on cheating. And pedophiles.

 

[gofriars610]

I think every athlete should be required to cross over to at least one other team. And carry a hand gun. Mandatory. It would cut down on cheating. And pedophiles.

dead.

 

[MrCheerMax]

I've seen plenty of crossovers... But when it's a level 5 athlete on a level 2 team, it's just plain rediculous. Unless there is a rules change it's going to keep happening.

Same level cross teaming??? Thats ok by me. (not that my opinion matters)

 

[cheermomforever]

CP once competed in J2 division against a team from MD and came in second. Was totally flabbergasted when I counted 3/4 of that same MD J2 team then compete on a J4, all with layouts and standing tucks...Really?

Other pet peeve... teams that compete ie. level 2 at one competition with fine skills then compete level 1 at another... OK I get it if you've got crummy skills and just can't make it at the level you started out in and realize your mistake but switching just for the sake of winning or dropping a level because you are going up against a bigger or more skilled gym, as Hi! It's Me 's CP said it's cheating.

Needs to be a limit as to who many levels a crossover can cross (like 1) and No world's team athletes crossing over to non-worlds teams.

We were at a comp with 2 competition floors, in the Sr2 division we ALL had to wait a 1/2 hour for a team to compete....why? Most of them were at the Level 5 awards accepting the 1st place trophy! They of course won Sr2 also......Why would those coaches, athletes and parents feel proud and accomplished? I definately would not.........

 

[megaflipper]

Is this the "offical" crossover hater thread for the next 12 months because the last 20 or 30 are buried in the past.

 

[CheerBank]

Is this the "offical" crossover hater thread for the next 12 months because the last 20 or 30 are buried in the past.

Sounds good. I started this one because I couldn't find any more recent ones and I needed to vent.

 

[Hi! It's me!]

I think the concern, rightfully so, is not the 1 or 2 or even 3 kids that crossover to help out in a pinch. I understand and completely support that. It is a necessary thing in a sport where the entire team is needed. It is not like other sports where you have a bench to draw from in times of need. I believe the concern is that more and more the desire to win, at all costs, is creating more and more teams out there sandbagging. We tell our children to strive to be the best, but to win at all costs is NOT striving to be the best, it's just winning. And there is a very big difference in my world. But apparently I live in a world of sunshine and rainbows. So I am putting my rose colored glasses back on and concentrating on teaching my cp the difference between earning something and an empty win. And thanking the Good Lord above that we are not at a gym that thinks sandbagging is ever ok.

 

[Bystander]

Ehh gyms that win with NO crossovers are just more impressive to me. either they flat out have more talent or they do more with the talent they have. I think if your going to use crossovers to have more teams in the same level then you are going to have to accept the fact that everyone will look at your teams wins with an astrisk attached. cuz it is legal! although in a baseball game its legal to run by a player about to catch a ball and scream drop it!!! but most just dont do it cuz its not really a cool way to win.

 

[cljacks99]

I think crossovers is kind of a double edged sword. I know for a fact that when people see my cp on J2 this year along with J4 and J5, they are going to give me a lot of grief. I figured I'd offer some food for thought on the situation since so often we are quick to judge with out knowing all of the facts. My cp is a heavier than average 9 year old. The average weight for a 9 yr old her height is 57 lbs. She is 66 lbs. She wears a size 6 in ladies shoe. I'm 5'3. Her dad is 6'1. Only our good maker knows how tall she will be, but I'm betting she's not going to be your average size tiny college flyer. I believe the best cheerleaders are great, all around cheerleaders that excel on all areas of a scoresheet. She knows that she needs to learn to base, and for the sake of safety and progression, her coaches thought it would be best for her to base on a level 2 team. She is a level 5 flyer and tumbler, but really needed a team where she could work on her performance and being clean. That's where the level 4 team comes into play. Since the level 4 tumbling passes will not be something she has to stress about, she really can be a leader on that team and be encouraging to her teammates. She can focus more on being a performer, and not just throwing skills. Ive also observed at practice, on that team she is able to really work on improving her jumps (which are currently comparable to most kids on a junior 3 team). She is in the gym working on skills or at practice between 12-15 hours a week. The amount of time she is in practice is comparable to a level 7-8 gymnast at a program local to us. This is her fifth year and she is more passionate about cheering now than she has ever been. I understand people's arguments on a case by case basis about teams that sandbag just for a win. I'm just suggesting before anyone jumps to conclusions about a roster and insinuates that teams are cheating, why not send a message to some of the parents of the athletes or even the coach and ask why teams are put together the way the are. You might just be surprised by the answer.

Now, the one negative thing I have found about having a cp that is a crossover is, it is not an easy thing to bond with all of your teammates as it would be if you were only placed on one team. My cp has been on multiple teams for 4 years now. I am taking it very seriously this season to make sure that she is equally bonded and comitted to her j2 team and j5 team. It is not easy. It is an area I have failed in in the past. This season, I have an amazing plan on how to do better.