All-Star Discussing The Value Of Tumbling In Io(c) 5/6

[imrichhowboutu]

hmmm...good point. I wish there was a way that we could help the international teams with their tumbling without only have it represent 2.5% of their score. I'm not talking like a huge advantage like building them all gyms, but maybe like some practice time on a spring floor before worlds or something
.....but at the same time they don't give certain countries a head start in the Olympics just because that sport isn't very practical to play in one country.

i agree with you in terms of, if it doesn't fit your country, then you dont do it. how many african figure skaters do you see out there? (not black ones, i mean ones from africa in the olympics). i dont recall ever seeing them.
same with gymnastics, some countries just aren't where they should be. you look at worlds for gymnastics and some of the scores are ridiculously low..

 

[cheer8]

Worlds International scoresheets just don't make sense as is. The majority of American all star score sheets appropriate equal amounts of points to both tumbling (running and standing) and building skills (stunts and pyramids) which is what the athletes are trained for. Once graduated the athletes now go to international teams b/c the industry has pretty much done away with regular open teams...a few still exist but everyone wants to be at Worlds so 99.9% just enter international. Unless some unethical rumors I hear about them prove to be true, the people sitting behind desks who have control over these score sheets definitely had other options to choose from to continue making more and more money off of Worlds:

Let i5 reflect the balance that is tumbling and building skills and let i6 have a stunting emphasis (makes sense...those with the complete package have a division and those who feel "disadvantaged" due to tumbling and choreography but find the time to excel at stunting also have a division and teams from the US and other countries can enter either)

Introduce the "Open" division to Worlds and leave International for teams outside the U.S. (it's done in every other division at Worlds anyway and this would certainly entice more US teams into the event with there not being a US preliminary comp)

I personally don't like what they reflect at all...and I encourage all the gym owners and coaches around the country to think about the graduating level 5 kids they have in their program (boys especially) see the current industry trends and instead of quietly sitting back and pondering why things the way they are...speak up and get answers...

I do agree with you 100%

I know for a fact that taking these sheet not only in International but smaller percentages in all divisions wil hurt the gym owners and coaches teaching tumbling classes. Not to say every kid will stop pushing but when they figure out tumbling isnt worth as much as stunts they will stop taking more tumble classes which most gyms make their money to pay the bills from tumbling classes. If tumblings not there some people maybe loosing their jobs.
It should be 10's across the board... Gymnastics don't have bars 20%, floor 10%, beam 70%. I thought we were trying to raise the bar on cheerleading not make us look less of a sport? Not just my opinion

 

[torsten]

Isn't the question "How much should tumbling be worth in a scoresheet?" very much related to the problem of defining cheerleading. Depending on who you ask how he/she defines cheerleading you'll get a lot of different opinions, e.g.

"Tumbling is a big part of todays cheerleading, because it makes routines more interesting."
"Tumbling plays only a small role. A tumbling pass or standing trick is only there for drawing attention to the cheerleaders, so they can perform their main job: leading cheers."
"Tumbling has the same right as every other part of the sport (stunts, jumps, motions, cheer), because it has developed historically along with all the other parts"

Of course there are many many more, but my point is depending on how you see cheerleading and how you want cheerleading to be in the future will directly effect what you think about the scoresheet. So there must be a reason that tumbling is scored so low in the international division. Who makes the scoresheet? Maybe someone who's involved in the process of designing the sheet could tell something about the reasons behind it?

 

[cheer8]

Isn't the question "How much should tumbling be worth in a scoresheet?" very much related to the problem of defining cheerleading. Depending on who you ask how he/she defines cheerleading you'll get a lot of different opinions, e.g.

"Tumbling is a big part of todays cheerleading, because it makes routines more interesting."
"Tumbling plays only a small role. A tumbling pass or standing trick is only there for drawing attention to the cheerleaders, so they can perform their main job: leading cheers."
"Tumbling has the same right as every other part of the sport (stunts, jumps, motions, cheer), because it has developed historically along with all the other parts"

Of course there are many many more, but my point is depending on how you see cheerleading and how you want cheerleading to be in the future will directly effect what you think about the scoresheet. So there must be a reason that tumbling is scored so low in the international division. Who makes the scoresheet? Maybe someone who's involved in the process of designing the sheet could tell something about the reasons behind it?

It's for the other countries that are lacking the equipment etc... to gain these tumbling skills quickly and giving them a better chance at worlds. I don't agree with that b/c us old folks learned doubles on hard floors so I don't see why this sheet has changed and why it is happening! It's a terrible decision but hopefully it will change back sooner than TO LATE!

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

why does the playing field have to be level? In the real world (which I don't know much about yet), but i'm pretty sure not everyone has an equal opportunity for getting or succeeding at a job. As much as we don't like it income, and education level make a difference. Its the same with cheerleading...just being born in a different state gives a kid more/ less access to big cheer gyms or better coaches (not that they aren't all amazing).

 

[torsten]

why does the playing field have to be level?

To help the sport grow in other countries. Leveling the playing field in the international division raises the chance for international teams at worlds to end at the top of the competion. When the team comes back home they'll tell everyone about their success. That brings more attention to the team and the sport, which probably leads to more people doing the sport.

 

[King]

To help the sport grow in other countries. Leveling the playing field in the international division raises the chance for international teams at worlds to end at the top of the competion. When the team comes back home they'll tell everyone about their success. That brings more attention to the team and the sport, which probably leads to more people doing the sport.

if tumbling is the foundation to building gyms, will that method increase tumbling?

 

[cheerlove]

as far as i know, there isnt a whole lot of tumbling you cant do in level 5 that you can in level six. i think level six should be more about the awesome stunts and baskets, but the proportions just dont seem right. level five a nice balance of stunts and tumbling would be nice. i love watching the amazing tumblers and im sure others do too!

 

[yojaehs]

Why can't all score sheets just have everything worth the same amount!? I just don't understand it.

 

[King]

Why can't all score sheets just have everything worth the same amount!? I just don't understand it.

for level 5, yes. for level 6 i definitely think it should be about building, because those are the only places in the rules that allow you to do more.

 

[yojaehs]

You can do more tumbling too

 

[yojaehs]

I agree with you in level 6

 

[Nothanks]

By all means correct me if i'm wrong, but there isn't a difference in IO(C) 5 and 6 tumbling. the difference is in stunting (allowing release moves to not be braced - tuck tosses, full tosses, etc - and pyramids 2.5 high). and because i see the only difference of IO(C) 5/6 being in the stunting aspect, i agree 120% with everyone who said make IO(C) 6 more stunting emphasized, and leave IO(C) 5 the way it is for people like me who have aged out of the senior division, but still have the level 5 tumbling, and want to continue progressing it. otherwise, we really have no where else to go. let's face it, most colleges don't have stellar tumbling in their routines, and some schools doesn't even have a cheerleading squad.

as someone who compete on IOC 5 last season, and is on IO 5 this season, tumbling is really 95% of why i'm in cheerleading to begin with...by minimizing what i love about the sport, it takes away from my wanting to continue doing it. If i'm not going to be rewarded for throwing a double full at worlds, why should i keep working on perfecting it all season long?

 

[torsten]

if tumbling is the foundation to building gyms, will that method increase tumbling?

I'm completely with you. Although I'm not a tumbler I really like seeing this amazing allstar tumbling and I'd really love to see more gyms over here. To answer your question I'd say that there are several goals that should be attained with the rulebook. One of these goals certainly is to increase the skill level in cheerleading. To do so it is necessary in my opinion to have quality gyms with well trained personal. Financing such a gym is not easy and you cannot waste your time and money practicing skills (or providing the equipment) that are nearly of no use at competition. So yes, to have great tumbling, you have to have a balanced scoresheet.

Other goals of a rulebook are e.g. make the sport safe, make it fun, make it interesting so that people want to get involved in the sport and give the athletes a system that offers him opportunities to be successful at different stages of his/her personal development. Having an age grid and a skills level system does provide these opportunities. So why not have a division that offers winning opportunites at worlds for teams that come from countries where cheerleaders mostly don't have access to good gyms? It has been said in another post that there are no athletes from Africa compete at winter olympics, because they don't have "access" to snow and it no one would ever have the idea of creating a special division for Africa at e.g. skiing. That's right. But that same sport has different competitions for different skills: downhill and slalom. Only a few athletes are good at both. Maybe we should have something similar, i.e. stunt oriented cheerleading and tumble oriented cheerleading as well as a combination (in skiing there's also combined).

 

[F&I0044]

To help the sport grow in other countries. Leveling the playing field in the international division raises the chance for international teams at worlds to end at the top of the competion. When the team comes back home they'll tell everyone about their success. That brings more attention to the team and the sport, which probably leads to more people doing the sport.

Right, but what kind of win is that? Is it really a win only because we've handicapped the international teams and downplayed tumbling? Doesn't seem right.

Additionally, it makes routines less interesting to watch. There are only so many stunt and pyramid sections a team can do before it starts to get repetitive. Tumbling usually takes about 30% to 40% of time in a routine, so now teams will be making this under 10%. This, then, will make cheerleading less exciting to the general public, thus decreasing everything you've said would happen that would bring more attention and publicity to the sport.