All-Star Extra Small As A Worlds Divison

[MissCongeniality]

We are hearing that they cannot share tax ID, staff,or athletes between locations, i.e. no one at main gym can be paid to provide services (choreo, coaching, ect) at satellite gyms if they are to be eligible. Not from an official source though, so YMMV.

Well I can see the ability to track tax id, but the rest... unh hunh.... good luck with that. I mean if you choose to become a franchise of a "Name" then part of that is what you have mentioned above... otherwise it is "just a name". And I fully expect some of the satellite "Name" to show up in this new division, unless the rules are loophole free.

 

[BlueCat]

We are hearing that they cannot share tax ID, staff,or athletes between locations, i.e. no one at main gym can be paid to provide services (choreo, coaching, ect) at satellite gyms if they are to be eligible. Not from an official source though, so YMMV.

An event producer is currently limited to hosting 1 bid-granting event. However, there is one giant conglomerate that owns many different event producers and shares staff, resources, etc. between them. If you claim that sub-business like gyms are really the "same company" if they share resources, should that same standard not be applied to event producers?

I see a lot of effort to curtail the spread of influence by the "mega-gyms", but I don't see the same concern directed at the "mega-everything" company. This is true despite the fact that all of the "mega-gyms" revenue and influence combined would barely be a rounding error to Big V.

ETA: None of this is saying that Varsity has acted particularly maliciously or overly abused their influence that I have seen. I just don't generally like any 1 entity having that much control over the direction of the industry.

 

[Lisa Seye]

Well I can see the ability to track tax id, but the rest... unh hunh.... good luck with that. I mean if you choose to become a franchise of a "Name" then part of that is what you have mentioned above... otherwise it is "just a name". And I fully expect some of the satellite "Name" to show up in this new division, unless the rules are loophole free.

Our gym is satellite name but we don't share choreo, coaching, staff, music, etc. and no athletes from main gym or any other in the satellites come to our gym. We are small gym in size, we only had three full year teams last season all small in size and one of those was all crossovers except two or three athletes. We had a level 5 team the year before that started out with 11 but gradually added athletes once school cheer was over up to maybe 17. Some athletes left and went to the main gym so they could be assured if being on a worlds team and we didnt have a worlds team this year. I am wondering if this is something our gym would consider since not counting our prep athletes we have a total of less than 50 full year athletes (had this last season anyway) I am hoping to see more than that this season tho.

 

[cheer25mom]

An event producer is currently limited to hosting 1 bid-granting event. However, there is one giant conglomerate that owns many different event producers and shares staff, resources, etc. between them. If you claim that sub-business like gyms are really the "same company" if they share resources, should that same standard not be applied to event producers?

I see a lot of effort to curtail the spread of influence by the "mega-gyms", but I don't see the same concern directed at the "mega-everything" company. This is true despite the fact that all of the "mega-gyms" revenue and influence combined would barely be a rounding error to Big V.

ITA with you on this!

 

[Cheerfan1234]

[This Is not directed at you]
This is the part that's strange about it to me because yes GBE qualify for XS being their only worlds team but they are also a big power (? Can't think of a better phrase) in small sr???? They globed last year????

id be a bit unhappy if teams that typically qualify for finals in small senior / small Coed were to consider XS, I don't think this is the intention of the creation of the division

I am not against XS, but what do you think the intent of making it a Worlds division is? In my opinion, there's no need for a training wheels division at the World Championships, which is exactly what it is unless every team is able to compete in it. If a program can field another great Worlds team of 14, then they should have just as much a right to compete in the XS division at Worlds as the program whose 2nd, 3rd, 4th + Worlds team competes in Small, Medium, or Large. I guess I'm just not on board with the "Now everyone has the chance to globe!" mentality. If the stipulation isn't going to change, then it shouldn't be a Worlds division at all. Every team is entitled to get a bid to Worlds and get their butts whooped for the first few years. Nobody is entitled to an easy win.

 

[AndyT_T]

I am not against XS, but what do you think the intent of making it a Worlds division is? In my opinion, there's no need for a training wheels division at the World Championships, which is exactly what it is unless every team is able to compete in it. If a program can field another great Worlds team of 14, then they should have just as much a right to compete in the XS division at Worlds as the program whose 2nd, 3rd, 4th + Worlds team competes in Small, Medium, or Large. I guess I'm just not on board with the "Now everyone has the chance to globe!" mentality. If the stipulation isn't going to change, then it shouldn't be a Worlds division at all. Every team is entitled to get a bid to Worlds and get their butts whooped for the first few years. Nobody is entitled to an easy win.

Calling it an easy win and a training wheels division is, at best, one hell of a reach.
Teams like MACS, GBE, Vision, Desert Storm, and Champion Cheer are the teams eligible for this division. Teams who consistently make top 10 and have at one time or another globed.
Saying this division is going to be a cake walk is ridiculous, there are multiple gyms who have been in finals or who have globed in the past who will be eligible for this division. They have proved time and again they can hold their own, so let's not talk about them like they're sally and suzy's back yard worlds team.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Calling it an easy win and a training wheels division is, at best, one hell of a reach.
Teams like MACS, GBE, Vision, Desert Storm, and Champion Cheer are the teams eligible for this division. Teams who consistently make top 10 and have at one time or another globed.
Saying this division is going to be a cake walk is ridiculous, there are multiple gyms who have been in finals or who have globed in the past who will be eligible for this division. They have proved time and again they can hold their own, so let's not talk about them like they're sally and suzy's back yard worlds team.

Desert Storm and MACs have both had more than 1 Worlds team the last couple years. And Champion Cheer is already going medium coed.
ETA: and Champion has also had more than one Worlds team for years

 

[AndyT_T]

Desert Storm and MACs have both had more than 1 Worlds team the last couple years. And Champion Cheer is already going medium coed.

Both teams use their Small Senior as a training team to their small coed, so I wouldn't be surprised if next year they were R5 and not S5. Plus, in previous seasons the gym has only had one team (I believe this was the first year for the S5 from DSE and I think MACS started last year right?). I also wouldn't be surprised if gyms who announced one team before the division came out might reconsider now.

BUT, I was more saying that there are many gyms who usually field only one worlds team and who also pretty frequently make finals/occasionally globe (Cheer Central Suns and Prodigy come) who could chose to put their one worlds team in this division instead of another. So until we see who is in the division next year their is no reason to call it an easy win. Small Senior and Small Coed are the deepest divisions at worlds, if you can pull of a globe in those divisions you are not easy to beat out.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Both teams use their Small Senior as a training team to their small coed, so I wouldn't be surprised if next year they were R5 and not S5. Plus, in previous seasons the gym has only had one team (I believe this was the first year for the S5 from DSE and I think MACS started last year right?). I also wouldn't be surprised if gyms who announced one team before the division came out might reconsider now.

BUT, I was more saying that there are many gyms who usually field only one worlds team and who also pretty frequently make finals/occasionally globe (Cheer Central Suns comes to mind as well) who could chose to put their one worlds team in this division instead of another. So until we see who is in the division next year their is no reason to call it an easy win. Small Senior and Small Coed are the deepest divisions at worlds, if you can pull of a globe in those divisions you are not easy to beat out.

Macs has had 2 small coeds for a few seasons out of different locations. And DSE had a small coed and international all girl last season. They've had an open coed team in the past as well, so has Macs.

 

[AndyT_T]

Macs has had 2 small coeds for a few seasons out of different locations. And DSE had a small coed and international all girl last season. They've had an open coed team in the past as well, so has Macs.

I know these gyms have at one time or another had multiple worlds teams, but they have also had seasons with just one worlds team who was very successful. I could see gyms being in XS some years and not in others depending on what the talent pool was like that season and how many teams they chose to field because of that.
Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if some teams who had in previous seasons had "just for fun" open teams/training teams deciding to moving the team to the restricted division or not fielding an open team if it meant they had the opportunity to be in the XS division which they would have a chance to win.

But even ignoring those two specific gyms, there are still other gyms who have only ever had one worlds team or who usually only have one worlds team who have semi-consistently made finals and who are not going to be easy wins. Cheers and More, Star Athletics, Elite Cheer, Vizion, GBE, Cheer Central, Prodigy, Orlando Allstars (back in the day) and more have all had seasons where they only fielded one small team and that team made finals or globed.

 

[AndyT_T]

I think the most important role of XS is going to be splitting up the small senior division. The SS/SC divisions are by far the largest divisions at worlds. I feel like breaking them into two divisions will in many ways contribute to the fairness of scoring. Comparing teams of similar sizes allow for more consistent scoring - it's the reason Small, Medium, and Large were split up in the first place.

I personally want to see the large division grow and the small division split so that one day each division equally deep.

 

[mamabear]

I saw a tweet yesterday from one of the English gyms that made me wonder if they might try to do an XS team next year instead of international. That is another pool of gyms that we have not been talking about.

 

[AndyT_T]

I saw a tweet yesterday from one of the English gyms that made me wonder if they might try to do an XS team next year instead of international. That is another pool of gyms that we have not been talking about.

I would LOVE to see some international teams in the XS division and at finals at worlds. I know of some Canadian programs who I think would be very successful in XS, and I could see finding an XS team size of level 5 skills being much more reasonable/possible for international teams.

 

[tojofasho]

I'm too lazy to find the post with the exact quote for the rules, but here's my question:

Are you allowed to have an XS Worlds team and other level 5 teams that don't go to worlds? In theory these gyms that have "just for fun" teams to train the kids in level 5 could still field those teams and then compete at NCA, Cheersport, and other large competitions, only abstaining from worlds. It would be a great cost-saver for parents who have barely-there level 5 athletes that don't have a prayer of making it past the first day at worlds.

I doubt any gyms would do it, but hey...I think it makes sense haha.

 

[AndyT_T]

I'm too lazy to find the post with the exact quote for the rules, but here's my question:

Are you allowed to have an XS Worlds team and other level 5 teams that don't go to worlds? In theory these gyms that have "just for fun" teams to train the kids in level 5 could still field those teams and then compete at NCA, Cheersport, and other large competitions, only abstaining from worlds. It would be a great cost-saver for parents who have barely-there level 5 athletes that don't have a prayer of making it past the first day at worlds.

I doubt any gyms would do it, but hey...I think it makes sense haha.

Could the team compete as R5 at summit bid competitions and S5 at non-summit bid events/after they get a summit bid?
I could also see these gyms fielding a junior 5 instead of senior 5 as a training team now that XS is a thing.