All-Star For The Judges

[KB_Legend]

Yes you can only increase scores by 0.1, since you have to give the easiest stunt with a level 5 element (I would assume a straight up stunt with a double down) an 8.0 and the smallest difference allowed is 0.1 the next hardest skill must score AT least an 8.1. No we don't know what exact scores will be given to what scores but we do know that a 1.5 up is AT least harder than a full up and a 1.25 up adding a release move would make it harder still so NO MATTER what anyone else does you have to AT LEAST be around an 8.5-8.6, which still leaves more room at the high end for harder skills, but my point is that with the current grid you can't just start pushing scores down because of the high end. There are basically 5 legal twisting entrances (1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2) each scoring higher than the previous. Think of the release moves as a separate line of scores (switch up, low high, high to high, ball up) each scoring higher than the last. The subjective part comes into what release move is equal to what twisting mount, and when you combine release moves and twisting mounts. You can't just make a 1.5 up worth the same as a 1.25 up because someone did a double up

 

[King]

Yes you can only increase scores by 0.1, since you have to give the easiest stunt with a level 5 element (I would assume a straight up stunt with a double down) an 8.0 and the smallest difference allowed is 0.1 the next hardest skill must score AT least an 8.1. No we don't know what exact scores will be given to what scores but we do know that a 1.5 up is AT least harder than a full up and a 1.25 up adding a release move would make it harder still so NO MATTER what anyone else does you have to AT LEAST be around an 8.5-8.6, which still leaves more room at the high end for harder skills, but my point is that with the current grid you can't just start pushing scores down because of the high end. There are basically 5 legal twisting entrances (1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2) each scoring higher than the previous. Think of the release moves as a separate line of scores (switch up, low high, high to high, ball up) each scoring higher than the last. The subjective part comes into what release move is equal to what twisting mount, and when you combine release moves and twisting mounts. You can't just make a 1.5 up worth the same as a 1.25 up because someone did a double up

But yes you can! Because scores arent released how would you know? And then throw in the worlds scoresheet.

as well twisting entrances have at least 3 variants. There is a fullup, but also a fullup immediate lib, stretch, and grab for scorp. right there that 15 variations of JUST twisting.

 

[King]

And I hate to sound like I am calling someone out, but it strengthens my argument.

I am pretty sure World Cup would say 1.5 up immediate stretch is a harder variation than just 1.5 up.

 

[King]

Then lets throw in combos! Fullup immediate full around is pretty hard. What about fullup immediate opposite stretch tick tock? There are a rediculous amount of variations. And we all come back to my point from earlier.

If ever team did a minimum of 3 elite entries / variations the judges would start scoring JUST 1.5 ups the same as a JUST a fullup because the range in which we are all competing would need more room to score.

We are not there yet, but the sake of this argument is all about perception. And, heck, we can't even agree to definition of prone... you think there arent judges who wouldnt devalue a 1.5 up because everyone else is doing a lot harder combination of skills?

 

[Ashley]

Then lets throw in combos! Fullup immediate full around is pretty hard. What about fullup immediate opposite stretch tick tock? There are a rediculous amount of variations. And we all come back to my point from earlier.

If ever team did a minimum of 3 elite entries / variations the judges would start scoring JUST 1.5 ups the same as a JUST a fullup because the range in which we are all competing would need more room to score.

We are not there yet, but the sake of this argument is all about perception. And, heck, we can't even agree to definition of prone... you think there arent judges who wouldnt devalue a 1.5 up because everyone else is doing a lot harder combination of skills?

Kingston, it looks like you're having a conversation with yourself.

 

[King]

Kingston, it looks like you're having a conversation with yourself.

all the time...

 

[Num1Stunta]

Because last year I would say CEA's stunt probably maxed out a lot of places.

Sorry to be the party pooper here, but wasn't that entire sequence technically Level 4 except the double downs? I don't see how that could max out on a level 5 scoresheet.... explain?

And this whole thread goes back to the issue of subjectivity and needing a more definitive point system for counting skills in a routine... whoever mentioned video review was onto something. Judges should be able to view all routines again, once the division is complete, to adjust scores if necessary IMO

 

[cheerKT]

Sorry to be the party pooper here, but wasn't that entire sequence technically Level 4 except the double downs? I don't see how that could max out on a level 5 scoresheet.... explain?

And this whole thread goes back to the issue of subjectivity and needing a more definitive point system for counting skills in a routine... whoever mentioned video review was onto something. Judges should be able to view all routines again, once the division is complete, to adjust scores if necessary IMO

I could be wrong, but wasn't the 1.25 up a level 5 skill? Or was that level 4 too?

 

[socratesofcheer]

I could be wrong, but wasn't the 1.25 up a level 5 skill? Or was that level 4 too?

On the varsity score sheet a 1.25 is an "elite" skill, though it is technically allowed in level 4. The same can be said for switch ups and tic-tocs.

 

[hiyoe6]

Didn't F5 get a 10 out of 10 on their stunts at JamFest? That was shocking to me. They did not do the hardest stunt your allowed in level 5.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT BASHING ANYONE. I simply don't understand.

Double up immediate bow double and scorp to scorp tick tocks. Maybe thats worth a 9.99, but still not a 10.

Skills need a set value and a routine starting value like gymnastics or NCATA and a skill layout form like the one colleges are required to have at NCA College Nationals this year. Having both of those would help to ensure the right people are scored correctly. This also doesn't take away the judges job because they would still be socring execution. It might even make it easier for them to focus on the execution aspect instead of all having to figure out what difficulty range they're going to be in before the next team comes running on the mat.

 

[King]

ok, that F5 stunt sequence got a 10 out of 10 BECAUSE no one before them performed the double ups. If that had happened I don think they would have gotten 10. Yes?

 

[garretttt]

I could be wrong, but wasn't the 1.25 up a level 5 skill? Or was that level 4 too?

1 1.25 and 1.5 are all level 4 skills.

 

[BlueCat]

So full squad toss awesomes would be "level 2" stunts?

I think that, for rubric purposes, stunting should be looked at as intermediate/advanced/elite rather than by the max level they are allowed in.

 

[Num1Stunta]

I could be wrong, but wasn't the 1.25 up a level 5 skill? Or was that level 4 too?

You can go up to 1.5 up in Level 4

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Sorry to be the party pooper here, but wasn't that entire sequence technically Level 4 except the double downs? I don't see how that could max out on a level 5 scoresheet.... explain?

And this whole thread goes back to the issue of subjectivity and needing a more definitive point system for counting skills in a routine... whoever mentioned video review was onto something. Judges should be able to view all routines again, once the division is complete, to adjust scores if necessary IMO

Correct, and there has been no need to try Level 5 stunting except double downs to this point due to the teams and what they are trying. I think body positions played a role in the stunt score at Indy, and SE did not change due to the risk of problems with one day to practice. It worked out. I do believe teams routinely use the double downs to get to range and then use relatively simple body positions and stunts to otherwise minimize risk and maximize score. However, as Kinston says in so many words, it should not be that hard to grid stunting, and as you suggest, view beforehand and afterwards to calculate the score. Especially in big nationals and worlds with the highest finishers. It would also allow for effective review and challenge by the staffs. That said, there will be more evolution next year, and the entire sequences will be more "Level 5 specific", especially when it is clear what skills will differentiate in a range. In the end, however, judges must judge.