All-Star How Many Full Outs?

[DaniV]

I would love to track how people train, practice, and get injured. Also what level, age, and what time of year. As well as the severity.

I think it would be very telling.

We had four competition weekends in a row with the 3rd comp being a two day comp with both days being 10-12 hour days for most of the girls. On the last practice before the 4th comp we had 3 rolled ankles, numerous sick kids, and the practice was pretty much a waste for all teams because they were so mentally and physically exhausted. I've never had a flyer hit the ground and there were three that were dropped that day on my team alone.

We are definitely going to be handling the comp schedule a little more carefully next year and planning to take it easy the week after a strenuous 2 comp, especially since this one fell in the middle of flu season.

 

[canz]

Teenage coach syndrome. They spend so much time trying to make little things perfect they don't "get to" the full outs. We will spend an hour on 16 counts. If it isn't "perfect" we not move on. The end results that full outs, when they happen, crash and burn the first couple of times because they haven't put it together in do long. The week before a comp is crazy because of it. They are suddenly trying to put it all back together. It has beenbetter this time with the lead in to cheersport. I think the powers that be at the gym have finally gotten the message that more supervision is needed. We have had a real adult at practice the past 2 weeks and have run full outs. I think they are getting that letting 2 teens coach was a mistake.

IMO little kids need to go full out with the music ALOT and they can actually handle alot more full outs than older athletes. Doing the actual routine withe the music is also fun and I find keeps them much more on task than being predominantly section focused. I find picking one or two sections to clean up and then do to the music and then doing full outs a good balance for little kids. They seem to have no problems remembering counts and routine that way but that may just be my experience.

 

[Tinkerbella]

Sometimes we don't go full out at practice. We may spend the whole practice on stunts and tumbling and cleaning certain parts of the routine. The last practice before a competition we stretch then alternate back and forth with another team in our gym running it full out. Then the last 20 minutes we have all the teams practicing that night rotate running it full out with everyone and cheer them on.

 

[MissBee]

I would love to track how people train, practice, and get injured. Also what level, age, and what time of year. As well as the severity.

I think it would be very telling.

Nerd swoon

 

[cupieqt]

Tonight we ran a typical practice with my Sr 1.
Stretch. Warm up each section (we practice moving from the end of each section to the next so transitions are clean). We then tweaked a section of the pyramid. We did 4 full outs. We discussed fixes in between each full out, got water and then worked the fixes. The 3rd full out was perfection. The 4th just made me do this : /

So we conditioned with 3 minutes of cardio and 6 sets of Fab Abs.

 

[FA_pinknation]

Interesting. So for people is it just full out, rest, full out, rest?

Do you all discuss in between full outs? Do you try individual skills in between full outs that may have missed?

We either discuss the good and bad points from a full out immediately after (they get their water bottle and sit in front of the coaches). Or if something was asked to be improved upon (prior to the full out) and was not / something was a complete disaster then we set back up immediately and do it before water.

(I find how other people do things fascinating)

Do you see injuries happen in your season early on or all year? Do injuries happen during risky skills? Do they happen because of fatigue or being improperly performed? Do alternates sit alongside and go in if injuries happen? When do you start watering down skills in relation to going full out and in relation to the time of year?

My gyms injuries are sporadic and not really related to full outs. Most are tumbling related or just bad luck (level 5 athlete rolls ankle warming up a level 1 skill). We have an in-house physiotherapist's office so we refer our injured athletes immediately and since he knows cheerleading quite well he can give the coaches a break down of what the athlete can and cannot do for the next few practices.

We are extremely cautious when it comes to safety and as soon as you get hit in the head even slightly you are forced to wear a foam helmet for the rest of practice. It is also to the coaches discretion in terms of the number of full outs a team can safely do. If execution is rapidly dropping and athletes exhausted after 4 full outs then after that point it becomes partial runs, cleaning and conditioning...

We do not use alternates but if someone is out we call up an athlete from a different team in the gym as a temporary replacement.

 

[taytaydaubs]

For my team, we warm up skills based on however the warm up will work at our next competition (proper order and minutes on each mat) and end with a stunt through for the full mat section. We then typically do 3-4 full outs. Depending on the day, how the full out was, or what skills need work sometimes our coaches have us immediately do any skills that didn't hit or throw (usually 3 times for tumbling or until it hits or until it hits 3 times for stunts). We generally get anywhere from 5-10 minutes between full outs. If we decide to take a break in between full outs we usually work whatever sections looked the worst during the previous full out.

 

[King]

Do you all see an even effort across all full outs or a significant decline in the full outs? Even a few months in do you see, after gaining familiarity, a decline in the 4th or more full out? Do you fully expect the 5th full out to hit? Does it ever or is it a rarity?

 

[Deleted member 11199]

In a usual practice anywhere from 4-6, and in a week about 16-20.... we warm up sections and then go completely full out. Needless to say, its DEATH but well worth it lol

 

[NJ Coach]

Do you all see an even effort across all full outs or a significant decline in the full outs? Even a few months in do you see, after gaining familiarity, a decline in the 4th or more full out? Do you fully expect the 5th full out to hit? Does it ever or is it a rarity?

The first full out of the season is usually the scariest. By this point in the season, I expect very few mistakes. Every once in awhile, there's a crash and burn routine, where there is more mistakes than not. I usually stop those routines and make them start again. I don't think I've ever done more than 2 or 3 full outs in a practice.

 

[cupieqt]

Do you all see an even effort across all full outs or a significant decline in the full outs? Even a few months in do you see, after gaining familiarity, a decline in the 4th or more full out? Do you fully expect the 5th full out to hit? Does it ever or is it a rarity?

I actually don't usually do more than 3 and tonight I originally told them no when they asked if they could go again on the 4th time. They begged and I relented and it wasn't good so I was all "I told you so" about it.
We expect the 2nd to be the best. A 3rd time is usually just for good measure. I probably wouldn't waste time on a 5th full out at this point in the year. We will do full out in sections if something needs to be worked that much.

Once we get past our biggest comp of the year, we start doing way less full outs (maybe 1 per practice just to keep muscle memory) and we start doing a lot of next level training and tumbling.

ETA: I think effort does decline on the 4th+ full out. It depends on the situation and the team for us though.

 

[Cheeranswers]

Do you all see an even effort across all full outs or a significant decline in the full outs? Even a few months in do you see, after gaining familiarity, a decline in the 4th or more full out? Do you fully expect the 5th full out to hit? Does it ever or is it a rarity?

my coach goes for quality or quantity which i really enjoy. but for almost every full out we do, w do another run immediately after of things that didnt hit. so basically if you push through, your next run is easy! i think its a good strategy

 

[cheerheart4life]

I find it very interesting how many times people go full out. I wonder if its more beneficial or running each section over and over again is.

I think it depends a lot on the program too though with injury and risk. I'm not a coach, but I would never tell a kid to throw a skill in a full out that they don't 100% have just warming up. And I see that happen at comps. To me that's kinda asking for injury if you throw a skill you're not used to worn out half way in the routine

 

[drewpate]

There are very different philosophies that work... I think it depends mostly upon how easy the tumbling skills are in a routine. I know when our gym first had level 5, it was one or two full outs a practice. Now there's more. It comes down to risk management. This year we have a much more talented team than in the past and they don't all throw their hardest skills, for the most part, all of the tumbling is relatively easy for them, and they have been throwing all of the skills for the better part of a calendar year. Before when we had to have kids throw what was essentially their hardest tumbling we couldn't risk injury. Now the risk for injury is down, even with a much harder routine, simply because the tumbling is easier for them, relatively speaking. At ASC i talked to Orson and a few other coaches about this, and he said that some of his teams will run 6-8 full outs a practice until about a month away from NCA. His philosophy is that nothing builds stamina and consistency like running a routine. There's not a true way to replicate just how exhausting a routine is with everything going on, especially since in this day and age there is no such thing as just a tumbler or just a stunter. I tend to agree, and see many programs having success with running lots and lots of full outs. However, there's a catch. All of the athletes need to be able to do the tumbling without a lot of thought. If the muscle memory is there, the risk for injury is lower. For that reason I have my level 2 and 3 teams who are phenomenal tumblers for their level and who can do all of the skills in the routine out in the parking lot cold (not that i actually have them do it) run 2 or 3 more full outs a practice than the level 4 and 5 teams, who have solid skills but are not necessarily better 'at their level'. More time is spent on cleaning, choreo, and skill building with those teams.
However there are gyms out there who excel by doing only 1 or two full outs a practice. I wish I knew their secrets, but I figure it comes down to building your teams right and lots of conditioning.

 

[Deleted member 8658]

i would say how are teams run full outs.... but i shouldn't give away are secrets