All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[cheerdaddy]

I think this dead horse has been beaten enough!

 

[cheerislove8]

I think this dead horse has been beaten enough!

Sure about that? :deadhorse:

 

[xtremeteal4life]

How is that better than comical? Either way she is saying that these teams should not be celebrating their win because they were already that level last year.

Sooooo... in all fairness SE should really stop being so happy when they win comps. I mean seriously...weren't they Level 5 last year? It's just foreign and unusual that they keep jumping up and down, all happy about winning all season when they already won those same comps last year, in that same level, with those same girls. (Just being facetious, but does it make sense this way?)

Well in all fairness I do agree w/Starship Trooper regarding the fact that level 5 is as high as you can go (except after age 18 of course)...but I also want to add that while I see where you were trying to go with your analogy, I do think that SE (and many other highly competitive teams) push the envelope with things like harder stunts, pyramids, harder tumbling passes, etc. so I would definitely think it not "unusual, funny, or foreign" to celebrate exceeding your previous accomplishments (as a team, not necessarily by trophies)..bc essentially, they're still progressing IMO.

She vary rarely ANYWHERE makes specific comments about any individual children, usually speaks in larger concepts and these types of analogies (which can be taken in many different contexts), but she FREQUENTLY brings inspiration to kids and parents she deals with at all levels.

I don't know Courtney near as well as @StarshipTrooper or many of the other Kernersville parents, but I do know who she is pretty well and I hope you can just take my opinion at face value: Regardless of the analogy she chooses for specific point in her own mind, Courtney and all of the other coaches care a great deal about ALL athletes AT ALL LEVELS. You can see it in their speech and how much they open up their lives and show genuine feeling to each and every athelete wearing a teal uniform, or any other cheerleading looking for guidance for that matter.

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth...Speaking as a parent from the Kvlle gym w/a lower level cp, she most certainly cares just as much for all of her athletes regardless of their level. She loves cheer and does open up her life to all of her athletes as part of her family, not just as kids who cheer for her.

 

[CGAcheer]

to add to the analogies,

Do you think a teacher thinks she failed her students when they don't all pass?
Do you think a teacher hopes all of her kids make into college?
Teachers don't push their 2nd graders to be the best 2nd graders they can be, they try to get them to 3rd grade.

Its just a different philosophies.

for me its just too big of a blanket timeline, yes a cheerleader that is at the top of the level at tryouts should progress to the next level the next season, but a kid who is just barely scraping her way into a level might need 2+ years there before moving up. of course this is all assuming your gym is large enough to have a appropriate teams for all of the kids to move to/stay on.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Personally, I think 2 years is plenty enough time to stay at one level (unless we're talking level 5 here).... No disrespect to anyone's CP, as clearly everyone has been very opinionated on this topic. I have to agree with Courtney's line of thinking here, though I probably wouldn't have placed the time constraint of one year per level on it. As we have established, being a level x athlete doesn't mean just having level x tumbling... maybe a kid starts and ends a season with the same tumbling skills but has improved in other areas, and that I would consider a relative success. But, in regards to tumbling... if I see a kid who has been cheering at the same gym for 5 years and isn't throwing more than a backhandspring, I have to honestly wonder what is going on. Are they not attending tumbling? Or is the tumbling ineffective?

As a coach, I share that same level of responsibility over the kids I coach and the skills they obtain. They are ultimately a reflection of our abilities.... example, if I see a kid who has been flying level 3 for a year and can still barely hit a dead leg position solidly, I'm gonna spend more time on that kid's flying technique, and I'm gonna beat myself up over what I did wrong and how I can fix it for future teams. Their successes and failures are as much ours as theirs... I can respect that Courtney puts it out there like that, and I don't think anyone needs to get their panties in a ruffle over it.

If you are a parent of a CP who has spent a few years on a "lower level" team, sit back at examine it.... is it a coaching issue? A gym issue? Is it that your CP just does it for fun and doesn't care to progress past that point? There are plenty of reasons, some of them coaches can control and some we can't. Courtney was referring to the aspects that she and her staff CAN control, and I would almost have to assume that one of those things would be instilling a drive in each kid so that they CAN and WANT TO progress.Maybe, to her, a failure is not only having a kid who doesn't progress skills, but who doesn't gain the desire to achieve new skills as well.

At the end of the day, if your CP is happy at the level and sees no reason to go beyond that point, then it's not a failure on anyone's part imo. But, I have to wonder why, if that is indeed the case, you would want to pay all of this money for all stars. My mother pulled me out of competitive gymnastics at age 9 because I wasn't progressing and it cost too much money. I wasn't progressing because I didn't have a natural talent for it, and because I wasn't taking it seriously- not because my gym was failing me. I went on to do cheer and other sports that didn't cost us a lot of money, and that I actually had a natural ability and passion for.

 

[justpeachy]

As the parent of a child that has always wanted more progression, but essentially been held back because she was ahead of her peers at our small gym, I highly value the CEA philosophy. What I gathered from the school/ cheer analogy is that if a child has the work ethic and desire to succeed, CEA feels a responsibility to cultivate that. You aren't getting what you're paying for if your child isn't able to learn at her own pace, whether that means to advance each season or be content with status quo.

I am sitting here in Florida trying to invent some kind of instant travel machine to get my 7 year old to NC a few times a week.

 

[frontflipper]

First, no child is ever a failure..Second, work ethic and love of the sport always carries a cheerleader. Sure it will fustrate us to not progress when it comes to others so naturally but I have never seen anyone turned away at my gym who has a desire to cheer.

 

[SharkDad]

As the parent of a child that has always wanted more progression, but essentially been held back because she was ahead of her peers at our small gym, I highly value the CEA philosophy. What I gathered from the school/ cheer analogy is that if a child has the work ethic and desire to succeed, CEA feels a responsibility to cultivate that. You aren't getting what you're paying for if your child isn't able to learn at her own pace, whether that means to advance each season or be content with status quo.

I am sitting here in Florida trying to invent some kind of instant travel machine to get my 7 year old to NC a few times a week.

I need a job when I retire from the Air Force. What I started Shark Air Shuttle Service (SASS) to get cheerleaders back and forth to their favorite gym?

 

[Knowcheering]

Courtney's comments below generated some conversation so I copied them below. Instead of hijacking her thread further I thought we'd continue here...

"We think our parents appreciate watching the metamorphosis of the team...and each season we ask our parents to make sure they still stand by this decision. It would be much easier to compete kids at their current level without expecting them to progress."

I agree with this. It's good to expect kids to progress throughout the season. I'd prefer a Level 2 kid on a Level 3 team who is expected to work towards Level 3 throughout the course of the season rather than a Level 3 kid who stays there year after year when she could probably handle the next level with some work.

We think of it this way : If cheerleading were analogous to elementary school, and Level 2 was second grade, Level 3 was third grade...etc...the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen for an athlete and they summarily "fail" their grade and return back to the second grade ( repeat level 2 again )...we failed as their teachers. It is funny to me to see the celebration that exists on teams of athletes who have been level 2 for 3 or 4 years. To us, that is the equivalent of celebrating the same spelling test words for the 4th year in a row and being excited about knowing them.

I would consider cheerleading more analogous to high school/college. Just about every child is expected to pass high school, but not every child is cut out to earn an advanced degree. Some students can handle harder subject matter than others, just as some cheerleaders can handle a higher skill level than others. It would be a failure to not pass 3rd grade, but it's not a failure to not get to an advanced level in something.

Cheerleading is like any sport... Not every kid will have the talent/drive/discipline/maturity/physical makeup/mental makeup to participate in major league baseball, NFL football, elite gymnastics, and the list goes on and on. If it was easy to bring a ton of kids to Level 5, then one could say that cheerleading is too easy of a sport. Luckily, that's not the case. And because of this, I don't think it would be right to consider any kid a failure if getting to a higher level of cheerleading simply isn't in the cards for whatever reasons. Honestly, I probably wouldn't pay for a kid to do Level 3 for 5-10 years, but it doesn't mean the child has "failed".

 

[FierceandFearless]

Courtney's comments below generated some conversation so I copied them below. Instead of hijacking her thread further I thought we'd continue here...

"This is a great question. We are often wondering the same thing. The reality is that in Kville kids don't stay Level 4 very long and with the advent of Mini level 3 and youth level 5, those that come up through our program are true level 5 athletes by the time they are junior age and stay that way. We certainly attract numerous level 5 kids, but mostly our team rosters are FILLED with kids who will be Level 5 whether they are this month or not come October. We think of it this way : If cheerleading were analogous to elementary school, and Level 2 was second grade, Level 3 was third grade...etc...the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen for an athlete and they summarily "fail" their grade and return back to the second grade ( repeat level 2 again )...we failed as their teachers. It is funny to me to see the celebration that exists on teams of athletes who have been level 2 for 3 or 4 years. To us, that is the equivalent of celebrating the same spelling test words for the 4th year in a row and being excited about knowing them. This is not meant to be offensive...just an analogy to see why we do have so many level 5 teams. We feel our parents as our customers are paying for instruction first and foremost...not assembly of skills. This is also why our lower level teams do not achieve the ability to be truly competitive in a division until the end of the season ( when they have actually become level 2, level 3, etc ). It is astounding to look back and see the growth over a season from the Showcase to the last competition. We think our parents appreciate watching the metamorphosis of the team...and each season we ask our parents to make sure they still stand by this decision. It would be much easier to compete kids at their current level without expecting them to progress."

no, it is not a failure, it is a set back. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SCX_mommaTera]

This isn't a beat up on CEA thing. What they are doing is hugely successful for them. As you can see though, reading any suggestion that a child that can't progress to level 5 is somehow failing is a bit of a hot spot for me!

Please understand words on paper has no emotion. i am not being mean spirited. BUT Every thread I come across that your comments are very "beat up CEA". Whatever your reasons im sure they are valid in your mind.

We moved from California & our first year in NC we were at another gym and like I said before they regressed there. So we started tumbling at CEA to get back on track from California. Whatever teaching style they use here works for my children. Also they are very competitive in nature and the other gym did not meet our standards so we decided to tryout. My older CPs are level 4 & 5 they learn new skills weekly. My youngest have been level 1 for 2 years (mini & youth) and now she is level 2. In June she had a round off & cartwheel, in august she had a round off bhs & standing bhs, she is working on multiple bhs now, by May she has set personal goals for level 3. I would be happy no matter what. The kids here push theirselves which make them easy to coach.

 

[cheermommaRN]

:cow:

Award for Oldest thread to be unearthed....1 year 5 months

 

[SCX_mommaTera]

The creation of the 4.2 division is a perfect example of a team of wonderful kids who may not have the tumbling to make a higher team. I have many pop Warner cheer leaders & school cheer leaders whom joined 4.2 teams and they are happy. Their is always something for someone!

 

[SarahS]

:cow:

Award for Oldest thread to be unearthed....1 year 5 months

So interesting to read perspectives, though, from all kinds of familiar names... Just-a-Mom had a CP and wasn't here just because we're cool, Kris10boo 's CP had progressed to level 2 (while she is now working on her full) ... certain people weren't banned...

 

[icheer8796]

:cow:

Award for Oldest thread to be unearthed....1 year 5 months

Ugh I know! And I hate this thread anyway! No kid is a "failure" to me, no matter how long they've been cheering on a certain level...