All-Star New Changes - Divisions For Worlds

[quitthedrama]

But the international 5 division at worlds has more lax tumbling requirements compared to club level 5 to even the playing field a little more for countries without the resources to develop strong tumbling...? On top of the 3 per country rule to level the playing field even more?

If they want a division to promote more worldwide participation, it belongs in ICU. It should not be a division that regular old club teams who clearly have the resources are able to compete in and it most definitely should not be a division at the world championships. "Retaining athletes" or "starting cheer at a young age" are NOT good enough reasons, sorry.

If you want to add that division at your local competitions, fine, but these routines should not be earning bids to the world championship.

This post wins the internet.
In addition, I worry for the coaches. I know many get paid peanuts to actually coach teams, and their main source of income comes from tumbling lessons. I think more kids dislike or fear tumbling than love it (tumbling never came easy to my kids and those classes and lessons were necessary to get them to the level they wanted to be), and if given the option to be able to compete at Worlds without high level tumbling skills kids may discontinue those classes and private lessons. If this trend continues (and I think it will), gyms could see a big hit from this.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

But the international 5 division at worlds has more lax tumbling requirements compared to club level 5 to even the playing field a little more for countries without the resources to develop strong tumbling...? On top of the 3 per country rule to level the playing field even more?

If they want a division to promote more worldwide participation, it belongs in ICU. It should not be a division that regular old club teams who clearly have the resources are able to compete in and it most definitely should not be a division at the world championships. "Retaining athletes" or "starting cheer at a young age" are NOT good enough reasons, sorry.

If you want to add that division at your local competitions, fine, but these routines should not be earning bids to the world championship.

This is the same line of thinking I'm in. I'm really quite torn over the NT divisions at Worlds. And I'm an athlete who could seriously benefit from them as I really don't tumble. But my first thought also was that this is not an all-star issue, it's more ICU, especially since they are introducing the 'cheer' aspect to some fo the divisions. All-star cheer looks different from the cheer that we are trying to get into the Olympics. However, I get that all-star cheer is likely the biggest and best venue to attempt to even things out for ICU/Olympics, since the majority (if not all) of the athletes have come from all-star and this is an area that can potentially implement change in the largest and fastest way possible

I also question how bids will work. I know that in the US, there are already restrictions on number and type of bids for Intl. teams (division), and level 6 teams. How many bids are going to seriously be considered for the new divisions? Will 1 be put aside, but no money attached?

Finally, I hate that the NT is 2 min routines. You want a division for stunting only, let them stunt!! I can only imagine how fast 2 minutes will go by

 

[quitthedrama]

This is the same line of thinking I'm in. I'm really quite torn over the NT divisions at Worlds. And I'm an athlete who could seriously benefit from them as I really don't tumble. But my first thought also was that this is not an all-star issue, it's more ICU, especially since they are introducing the 'cheer' aspect to some fo the divisions. All-star cheer looks different from the cheer that we are trying to get into the Olympics. However, I get that all-star cheer is likely the biggest and best venue to attempt to even things out for ICU/Olympics, since the majority (if not all) of the athletes have come from all-star and this is an area that can potentially implement change in the largest and fastest way possible

I also question how bids will work. I know that in the US, there are already restrictions on number and type of bids for Intl. teams (division), and level 6 teams. How many bids are going to seriously be considered for the new divisions? Will 1 be put aside, but no money attached?

Finally, I hate that the NT is 2 min routines. You want a division for stunting only, let them stunt!! I can only imagine how fast 2 minutes will go by

I agree that the reasoning is somewhat related to the Olympics - which I can support if it was introduced appropriately. Like @njallday said, make it an ICU event if it is going to be included at the Worlds event. And in reality, tumbling is not the biggest hurdle that is preventing international teams from attending Worlds. The fact that it is in Florida every single year makes it impossible for most international teams to attend. I can almost guarantee that the location for worlds is not going to change, because it would not be profitable at all, which comes back to making me think this is about the bottom line more than anything.

 

[FamUsM0m]

Nope not a fan. But part of me thinks this is to get more countries to participate in worlds, further helping the outlook of cheer in favor of being included in the olympics in some way.

I believe that is the ultimate goal

 

[EMMbaleena]

I have some serious SAFETY concerns with the IASF NT L5 division in general.

In my cheer career I've definitely seen some Open teams that are unsafe. Bare with me here for a minute. I assume/hope these are mostly adults continuing their cheer career for the love of the sport. These athletes may have never made it beyond an L1 team, who knows. So, back in the day, the only open divisions available were in L5 and L6. Then, L4 was created - allowing these athletes to be slightly more safe, but still a WAY higher level than some of these athletes have ever competed. These teams may have a couple of athletes capable of throwing a few L4 tumbling skills.

Now, we're providing a way for these teams to continue this path without having ANY tumbling, but they can do more advanced stunting?...

I guess for me it comes down to why is NT being provided ONLY for L5 IF this change is about safety? I guarantee we're going to see some janky L5 open teams going into this division not because they have L5 stunting skills, but because they don't have the basic tumbling requirements to hit the scoresheet in any L4 division.

EDIT: I'd prefer if we just didn't open this STRANGE can of worms and provided more open team level options.

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

You can compete in diffrent all around division without uneven bars and you can be world champion too,because we know you are not good at it and we know you hate it so you have never have to train bars again

Okay but - you can be an uneven bars specialist and "win worlds" - it is just a different division (i.e. EVENT SPECIALTY). No one is saying they are an 'all around world champion....'

Same thing with NT - It is a 'stunt specialty' division....

 

[cheer25mom]

Okay but - you can be an uneven bars specialist and "win worlds" - it is just a different division (i.e. EVENT SPECIALTY). No one is saying they are an 'all around world champion....'

Same thing with NT - It is a 'stunt specialty' division....

Yes but they declare a world champ on bars every year, and only ONE all around champ. there aren't separate all around divisions. By your argument we would need ONE TEAM to be declared the best in the world. I look at all of the world globe winners as divisional winners.

 

[Ashley]

This is the same line of thinking I'm in. I'm really quite torn over the NT divisions at Worlds. And I'm an athlete who could seriously benefit from them as I really don't tumble. But my first thought also was that this is not an all-star issue, it's more ICU, especially since they are introducing the 'cheer' aspect to some fo the divisions. All-star cheer looks different from the cheer that we are trying to get into the Olympics. However, I get that all-star cheer is likely the biggest and best venue to attempt to even things out for ICU/Olympics, since the majority (if not all) of the athletes have come from all-star and this is an area that can potentially implement change in the largest and fastest way possible

I also question how bids will work. I know that in the US, there are already restrictions on number and type of bids for Intl. teams (division), and level 6 teams. How many bids are going to seriously be considered for the new divisions? Will 1 be put aside, but no money attached?

Finally, I hate that the NT is 2 min routines. You want a division for stunting only, let them stunt!! I can only imagine how fast 2 minutes will go by

It's an international division, so they'll probably lump them in with the international teams now. International Teams aren't eligible for paid, or 1 at large will be set aside for an international team, etc.

If they're going to make a version of the Varsity scoresheet for this division, then they really should change the weightings of tumbling for international divisions on their scoresheet as well. I don't want to compete in NT, but I'm also getting tired of fighting all year to get a bid on a scoresheet that weighs tumbling at 20% (realistically more since the range is generally more wide open for tumbling than stunting) only to go to worlds where it's 7%.

I'm jealous that I'll be fighting against them for bids when they never have to deal with that discrepancy.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

It's an international division, so they'll probably lump them in with the international teams now. International Teams aren't eligible for paid, or 1 at large will be set aside for an international team, etc.

If they're going to make a version of the Varsity scoresheet for this division, then they really should change the weightings of tumbling for international divisions on their scoresheet as well. I don't want to compete in NT, but I'm also getting tired of fighting all year to get a bid on a scoresheet that weighs tumbling at 20% (realistically more since the range is generally more wide open for tumbling than stunting) only to go to worlds where it's 7%.

I'm jealous that I'll be fighting against them for bids when they never have to deal with that discrepancy.

The difference between a Varsity scoresheet all year and a different one at Worlds is my big pet peeve. But that’s another can of worms for a different (already beaten down) thread

At least in Canada, all teams are eligible for all bids, so far as I know. But we’re also majority Intl teams too. You know that if Varsity does come out with a new scoresheet, it’ll be in the middle of Feb and everyone will be scrambling to redo routines.

 

[Jolette]

So to me it seems like there are 3 different "World Championships" (ICU, USASF, IASF) They each have what I would consider a good number and variety of events. It's when they are all combined into one giant competition that things start looking ridiculous! This doesn't even include all the summits and all the other events like para-cheer & dance etc. It's just so crazy.

I just can't wait to see how this all evolves. It almost seems like each one is creating their own set independent of the others...

ICU:
Junior All Girl Advanced
Junior Coed Advanced
Junior All Girl Elite
Junior Coed Elite

All Girl Elite
Coed Elite
All Girl Premier
Coed Premier

USASF:
Senior Extra Small All Girl 5
Senior Small All Girl 5
Senior Medium All Girl 5
Senior Large All Girl 5

Senior Extra Small Coed 5
Senior Small Coed 5
Senior Medium Coed 5
Senior Large Coed 5

Open 5
Open Small Coed 5
Open Large Coed 5

IASF:
International Small Coed 5
International Large Coed 5
International All Girl 5

International Small Coed 6
International Large Coed 6
International All Girl 6

International Coed 5 NT
International All Girl 5 NT

Global Club Level 5
Global Club Level 5 Coed

 

[fullinitup]

Kinda bummed that the non tumble is a worlds eligible team. I think it could be a good addition to the sport for like NCA CHEERSPORT etc. but I am having a hard time knowing these bad booty junior 5 teams can't be at worlds but they can.

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

Yes but they declare a world champ on bars every year, and only ONE all around champ. there aren't separate all around divisions. By your argument we would need ONE TEAM to be declared the best in the world. I look at all of the world globe winners as divisional winners.

I mean, you could argue that there is a 'mens' all around and a 'womans' all around ---- like cheer is coed to all girl.

You can argue "all-around team" to "all around individual"

And you could argue "event specialists" as a separate category from all around competitors.

I see your point @cheer25mom and you're correct in that the sports are not the same. But each sport has their way of subdividing into different competitions (swimming isn't just "swimming" - track and field isn't just "track and field").

Cheer just happens to divide teams into size, coed/allgirl & now tumbling and no tumbling. It is a way to get more involvement and more $$$. More money = more attention from (Olympic) decision makers. More attention = even more money & coverage & enrollment.... and the cycle continues.

I personally see the NT division to the equivalent as "I am a all around level 5 gymnast, but an elite vaulter" - tumbling being the "all around" and vaulting being the "stunt".

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

For anyone who isn't familiar with Spring tumbling - they coach GW's, Team Finland, and lots of very very successful teams. This was their statement. Worth a read if you don't agree with the 'new divisions'

 

[CaliCheerMomMTZ]

IASF is drunk...that is all.

Right?!? It's like, "Go home, IASF..."

 

[311cheermom]

I'm not really understanding all the hostility towards this new division