All-Star October Update To Varsity Scoring System

[Hungry]

ASCheerMan

To clarify on tumbling. When it says in the high range "most of the athletes participate in 2 level appropriate skills" Does this mean that each athlete needs to do two passes? If I have 15 tumblers, ultimately I would need to have a total of 30 passes (ie: one synch pass with all of them and then additional 15 passes)?

Do the level appropriate skills have to be different? (level 2: if each athlete does a standing back handspring twice, does this count?)

 

[ASCheerMan]

I have a level 4 with 11 kids. This requirement is near impossible to meet while still meeting all the other requirements needed to max out in scoring. To be completely honest, saying that my team, which is very strong at stunting, is "better suited" to score in the medium or low range is borderline offensive. I feel like there are so many areas where small teams are at a disadvantage on a scoresheet when it comes to many subjective categories, and to add baskets difficulty to that list is frustrating.

That being said, I will acknowledge that small teams have less risk for deductions (less kids = smaller number of stunt groups = smaller chance of falls), but that's about where the advantage ends.

JulieP, I was referring to a Team of 20 in my response. I tried to state that numerous times because of the exception I spell out in the next paragraph. I didn't intend to even come close to offending you as I don't know what your team's strengths and weaknesses are or what they are capable of. Let me address the team size of 11 scenario in the next paragraph and then further clarify my 'better suited' comment in the paragraph after that.

A smaller team's number of tosses expected will never exceed the value of two squad tosses. So, a team of 11 is expected to throw a squad section (with 2 tosse) and an additional 2 tosses.

I stand by my statement that, REGARDLESS OF TEAM SIZE, some teams are better suited to choreograph to their strengths rather than blindly going for the HIGH range in every category with the potential of suffering technique.

In the past, most teams spent extra time in areas they were strong at and less time in areas that they were weaker (for example, a strong tumbling team would tumble a lot and shave down their stunt sequence so they had enough 8 counts to do so. With the release of what exactly needs to be included to score a team HIGH, coaches are asssuming it's their duty to have a routine containing elements that reach the HIGH subrange in every single category--something that hardly happened last season before we got so specific. What is being undervalued in all this is the TECHNIQUE score. Many teams would mathematically do better to include elements of a MEDIUM difficulty and HIGH technique rather than a HIGH DIFFICULTY with MEDIUM or LOW technique.

 

[ASCheerMan]

ASCheerMan

To clarify on tumbling. When it says in the high range "most of the athletes participate in 2 level appropriate skills" Does this mean that each athlete needs to do two passes? If I have 15 tumblers, ultimately I would need to have a total of 30 passes (ie: one synch pass with all of them and then additional 15 passes)?

Do the level appropriate skills have to be different? (level 2: if each athlete does a standing back handspring twice, does this count?)

Hungry, You need 75% of your team to tumble twice. This means you generally need 30 passes. You may get to 30 passes one of three ways:
1. You may have 15 athletes tumble twice.
2. You may have 20 athletes tumble once and then 10 athletes tumble a 2nd time.
3. Anything in between.

The judges are going to LOOK for a way to get you to 30 passes, rather than force 15 individual athletes to tumble twice if that isn't what makes the most sense.

In terms of level appropriate pass, as long as it is level appropriate, you may repeat the same pass to get you into the range. That said, your score WITHIN the range may be affected by the difficulty (if TEAM A and TEAM B both have 2 squad passes but TEAM A throws one RO SINGLE BHS and then one RO BHS SERIES and TEAM B throws 2 passes, both of which are RO SINGLE BHS, the judges may give the Difficulty edge to TEAM A).

 

[chyeeaaa69]

Question in regards to jumps(level 5): when it says that most athletes are required to perform a triple or quad jump combination to score in the high range, does that mean connected to a back tuck, or are you just saying that to score in the high range in jumps most athletes need to be throwing 3-4 connected jumps?

 

[ASCheerMan]

Question in regards to jumps(level 5): when it says that most athletes are required to perform a triple or quad jump combination to score in the high range, does that mean connected to a back tuck, or are you just saying that to score in the high range in jumps most athletes need to be throwing 3-4 connected jumps?

Hi Cool Sunglasses Person,
Your jump requirement has NOTHING to do with Standing Tumbling. Standing Tumbling requires jumps but jumps don't require standing tumbling. When calculating your JUMP score, whether or not you connect STANDING TUMBLING will not influence your Difficulty or your Technique. Only the variety, use of approaches, use of combinations, height, form, and execution will drive your JUMPS score.

 

[JulieP]

JulieP, I was referring to a Team of 20 in my response. I tried to state that numerous times because of the exception I spell out in the next paragraph. I didn't intend to even come close to offending you as I don't know what your team's strengths and weaknesses are or what they are capable of. Let me address the team size of 11 scenario in the next paragraph and then further clarify my 'better suited' comment in the paragraph after that.

A smaller team's number of tosses expected will never exceed the value of two squad tosses. So, a team of 11 is expected to throw a squad section (with 2 tosse) and an additional 2 tosses.

I stand by my statement that, REGARDLESS OF TEAM SIZE, some teams are better suited to choreograph to their strengths rather than blindly going for the HIGH range in every category with the potential of suffering technique.

In the past, most teams spent extra time in areas they were strong at and less time in areas that they were weaker (for example, a strong tumbling team would tumble a lot and shave down their stunt sequence so they had enough 8 counts to do so. With the release of what exactly needs to be included to score a team HIGH, coaches are asssuming it's their duty to have a routine containing elements that reach the HIGH subrange in every single category--something that hardly happened last season before we got so specific. What is being undervalued in all this is the TECHNIQUE score. Many teams would mathematically do better to include elements of a MEDIUM difficulty and HIGH technique rather than a HIGH DIFFICULTY with MEDIUM or LOW technique.

Thanks for the clarification in your second paragraph. I did not see that explanation on the link you provided in the original post. Where does it appear on the PDF?

I would agree with the statement that teams should choreograph their routine to their strengths. However, as a coach, I need to understand what scores in the high range in order to assess my teams and choreograph accordingly. When it's an area that my teams are good at, in this case it's stunting/baskets, I need to understand how we attain the top score. Further, I think that pushing my team to be well-rounded and high-scoring in both difficulty AND technique is important. We don't sacrifice technique for skills, and we understand that there's some give and take in scoring- it's difficult to include all the elements necessary to score well if/when you have a well-rounded team.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. It's one less basket than I thought I needed based on your original post, and that will be a lot easier to do.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

Hi Cool Sunglasses Person,
Your jump requirement has NOTHING to do with Standing Tumbling. Standing Tumbling requires jumps but jumps don't require standing tumbling. When calculating your JUMP score, whether or not you connect STANDING TUMBLING will not influence your Difficulty or your Technique. Only the variety, use of approaches, use of combinations, height, form, and execution will drive your JUMPS score.

Side note that's Beyonce in my picture not me.
Thanks

 

[ASCheerMan]

Thanks for the clarification in your second paragraph. I did not see that explanation on the link you provided in the original post. Where does it appear on the PDF?

I would agree with the statement that teams should choreograph their routine to their strengths. However, as a coach, I need to understand what scores in the high range in order to assess my teams and choreograph accordingly. When it's an area that my teams are good at, in this case it's stunting/baskets, I need to understand how we attain the top score. Further, I think that pushing my team to be well-rounded and high-scoring in both difficulty AND technique is important. We don't sacrifice technique for skills, and we understand that there's some give and take in scoring- it's difficult to include all the elements necessary to score well if/when you have a well-rounded team.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. It's one less basket than I thought I needed based on your original post, and that will be a lot easier to do.

JulieP, I dont' think we are disagreeing with eachother. Quite the contrary. You are right that there are give and takes in scoring. My originial aside was more to the masses reading the boards than to you personally (I lay it out better in my Risk Vs. Reward article I posted a couple of months ago). In almost every response to questions regarding Difficulty I throw in a comment about Technique, only because I worry that's the area not getting enough attention by our industry.

The idea of smaller teams being held to a smaller Tosses standard is being spelled out in a Q&A for Judges (that Coaches will have access to) as well as included in the Judges Training Webinar. How strongly do you feel that it needs to be ON the official PDF?

 

[JulieP]

JulieP
The idea of smaller teams being held to a smaller Tosses standard is being spelled out in a Q&A for Judges (that Coaches will have access to) as well as included in the Judges Training Webinar. How strongly do you feel that it needs to be ON the official PDF?

I think maybe a general disclaimer to coaches to check the Q&A and Webinar would be helpful for clarifications, because otherwise I think coaches might wrongly assume as I did about the basket quantities. I don't think there's a clear/simple way to include it on the grid though because it seems to require more explanation than the grid can accomodate.

 

[Mclovin]

I think I understand this, but since this thread is here, I'm gonna ask anyway

For Level 3 our dismount is included in the 4 intermediate skills we need to max out stunting correct? Also for Level 4 if we do 2 level appropriate dismounts is the second one included in our attempt to have 3 advanced skills in our stunts?

 

[ASCheerMan]

I think I understand this, but since this thread is here, I'm gonna ask anyway

For Level 3 our dismount is included in the 4 intermediate skills we need to max out stunting correct?

CORRECT!

Also for Level 4 if we do 2 level appropriate dismounts is the second one included in our attempt to have 3 advanced skills in our stunts?

No, under Advanced Skills, the skill is listed as an "OR" in the spirit of only giving you credit once for your dismount.

 

[Mclovin]

No, under Advanced Skills, the skill is listed as an "OR" in the spirit of only giving you credit once for your dismount.

So there's no need whatsoever to do a full down from single leg AND a double down from two feet?

 

[drewpate]

So there's no need whatsoever to do a full down from single leg AND a double down from two feet?

unless you don't have three advanced transitions wihtout it is my understanding. Maybe ASCheerMan can clear that up.

IE, would Full up to awesome, double down. express up, body positions, full down from one leg score advanced?

 

[ASCheerMan]

So there's no need whatsoever to do a full down from single leg AND a double down from two feet?

To qualify for a range, that answer is "NO." To get the highest score within that range and beat the competition, the answer is "maybe."

 

[ASCheerMan]

unless you don't have three advanced transitions wihtout it is my understanding. Maybe ASCheerMan can clear that up.

IE, would Full up to awesome, double down. express up, body positions, full down from one leg score advanced?

You need 4 advanced skills, only one of which may be a Level Appropriate Dismount. In your example, you are short one Advanced skill to score in the HIGH range.