All-Star Sandbagging Karma

[cheer mom]

I know of whole teams that compete level 1 or level two and every athlete on the team but maybe 1 or 2 tumbles at a level 3 or higher. They win all the time get their summit bids and then brag about how great they are. Personally I have paid to much money for my 2 daughters to learn and achieve higher level skills to make a higher level team. I'm not paying a gym more money for my level 4/5 athlete to crossover and be on your level 1 team just to win. I disagree with it and we will not attend gyms that partake in it. Filling in for an injury is acceptable but not whole teams

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[Labegg]

i believe the only way i can disagree with having higher level athletes on lower level teams if you have a very small gym. we have 36 cheerleaders right now and maybe around 100? dancers. one of our girls is on M1, J2 and J3 and she just got her full. she would probably be on a youth 5 if we had one. sometimes you have no other options than to put an athlete on the highest level available even if it doesn't maximize their potential.

My question is...Why is this athlete on (3) teams? Why not put her on J3 and be done? Is she really NEEDED on M1? I mean they really couldn't scare up a level 1 cheerleader they need to put a level 3 (really a level 5) on that team? We are at a small gym I mean SMALL (3) teams...guess what...we don't have any crossovers and are successful. Now I will say that we have one youth aged level 5 cheerleader on a level 1 team because she did not meet the age minimum for the Sr. 5 team and we did not have an age appropriate team anywhere near her skill level. I just don't buy that small gyms have to put kids on multiple teams to "make it". In your scenario the athlete had a team that more closely matched her skill level and for which she was age eligible so there was no need to have her triple team.

 

[cpsmom]

Let me set the record straight. The J1 team in question wanted to travel to Ohio for a chance at a Summit Bid because they had come so close at Cheersport. This team had come so far and some of these athletes were brand new to cheer. But they practiced hard and really pulled it together. The gym wanted to give them another chance to compete on a big stage. Some of the regular team members could not travel. The gym asked for fill-ins - some of them were higher than level 1, but 89% of the team was regular J1. Not one fill-in was true level 5. The gym doesn't have a worlds team yet - it's a young gym, only has a restricted team. Two of those fill-ins couldn't do back walkovers. One was cheering for the first time since a devastating injury back in December. Notably, the fill-ins had 2 practices to learn the entire routine. Why a parent would post something like this to create bad feelings towards a team that was just trying it's best to reach a goal is beyond me. The fact that they would enjoy it when kids are hurt or upset - it's so sad. Moral of the story - rumors are not worth believing. Neither are bitter people on Fierceboard .


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Not bitter....just calling a spade a spade. Whatever helps you justify it....but the coach at this gym has been down this road before LOL.

 

[Fiercecheer12]

My tea, competes against a team that is level 3 but has all level 5 girls on it :banghead:

 

[pinkcheerb0ws]

Bringing this back because I was watching Summit and noticed a girl I knew (who is on a Worlds team) competing with a Senior 1. I looked back at previous comp videos and she has been on the S1 team the whole season. She also competed with what I'm pretty sure is a Senior 3. Two questions on this: How does it affect the Summit/Worlds crossover rule (if there are already five Worlds athletes crossing to S3) and WHY would a larger gym put a clearly Level 5 athlete who has gone to Worlds multiple times on a Senior 1? I honestly don't get it.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Bringing this back because I was watching Summit and noticed a girl I knew (who is on a Worlds team) competing with a Senior 1. I looked back at previous comp videos and she has been on the S1 team the whole season. She also competed with what I'm pretty sure is a Senior 3. Two questions on this: How does it affect the Summit/Worlds crossover rule (if there are already five Worlds athletes crossing to S3) and WHY would a larger gym put a clearly Level 5 athlete who has gone to Worlds multiple times on a Senior 1? I honestly don't get it.

There are some Senior 5 kids I know who would tumble bust on a BWO. Seriously.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Bringing this back because I was watching Summit and noticed a girl I knew (who is on a Worlds team) competing with a Senior 1. I looked back at previous comp videos and she has been on the S1 team the whole season. She also competed with what I'm pretty sure is a Senior 3. Two questions on this: How does it affect the Summit/Worlds crossover rule (if there are already five Worlds athletes crossing to S3) and WHY would a larger gym put a clearly Level 5 athlete who has gone to Worlds multiple times on a Senior 1? I honestly don't get it.

Can't answer your second question because I don't get it either, but each team can have 5 Worlds crossovers, so S1 can have 5 and S3 can have 5. They can all 5 be the same people or all 5 be different, there's no inter-team crossover rule at the Summit.

 

[pinkcheerb0ws]

Can't answer your second question because I don't get it either, but each team can have 5 Worlds crossovers, so S1 can have 5 and S3 can have 5. They can all 5 be the same people or all 5 be different, there's no inter-team crossover rule at the Summit.

That's really messed up that they allow Worlds crossovers to Level 1! USASF should have some kind of level crossover rule because it's just wrong to see so many athletes who are not true level 1 or 2 competing at those levels just to win.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

Bringing this back because I was watching Summit and noticed a girl I knew (who is on a Worlds team) competing with a Senior 1. I looked back at previous comp videos and she has been on the S1 team the whole season. She also competed with what I'm pretty sure is a Senior 3. Two questions on this: How does it affect the Summit/Worlds crossover rule (if there are already five Worlds athletes crossing to S3) and WHY would a larger gym put a clearly Level 5 athlete who has gone to Worlds multiple times on a Senior 1? I honestly don't get it.

I was watching the feed and noticed some of those level 1 kids had the most controlled and textbook perfect tumbling I've ever seen. There is no doubt some of those kids have MUCH higher tumbling skills than what they competed with this weekend.

We did have a L4 girl who crossed down to a L1 team because they needed a base and she wanted to cheer with her sister. It was only 1 girl, but I'm still not sure that I agree with someone competing that far out of their skill range unless it's a small gym with limited kids to pull from.

 

[Babs]

I'm so confused how coaches, athletes, and parents can be excited about a team winning at the summit when over 25% of the athletes (in a team I know of) competed at a higher level the entire season.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I know this won't be a popular comment but unless it's the level 5 divisions pretty much ALL of these teams are loaded. I know that one team in level 1 has kids with consistent level 3/4 skills. I don't know if I would consider it sandbagging but it's gotten to the point that if you want to be a winning team you have to create one with kids one level higher than what your competing.


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[quitthedrama]

I know this won't be a popular comment but unless it's the level 5 divisions pretty much ALL of these teams are loaded. I know that one team in level 1 has kids with consistent level 3/4 skills. I don't know if I would consider it sandbagging but it's gotten to the point that if you want to be a winning team you have to create one with kids one level higher than what your competing.


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totally agree. Someone mentioned that they would rather watch the Summit than Worlds because more teams are hitting and the technique is better. That's what you get when you have teams sandbagging left and right. I know of teams that have almost full team tucks that are not in level 3. It's legal so they have every right, but it means the lower level skills that they are competing are going to look very clean and they will most likely hit. I see more teams having to compete at a lower level than their actually skills in order to stay competitive.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

I know this won't be a popular comment but unless it's the level 5 divisions pretty much ALL of these teams are loaded. I know that one team in level 1 has kids with consistent level 3/4 skills. I don't know if I would consider it sandbagging but it's gotten to the point that if you want to be a winning team you have to create one with kids one level higher than what your competing.


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Competing skills you are proficient in and loading L1/2/3 teams with L3/4/5 athletes is not right IMHO. I expect teams to compete a level lower than the skills they are working on. That means CP who's working her layout & standing tuck competes L3. She uses that time to perfect L3 connections and her L4 skills.

The issue I have is when a team has several kids win at a higher level then cross over to a lower level team and win there too. If a kid is working layouts, fulls, etc they have no business competing on a L1 team unless it's a one time, last minute emergency fill in situation bc Susie broke her arm the week before the Summit & Sally's older sis already has her plane tix bc she will be there cheering little sis on.

 

[pinkcheerb0ws]

Competing skills you are proficient in and loading L1/2/3 teams with L3/4/5 athletes is not right IMHO. I expect teams to compete a level lower than the skills they are working on. That means CP who's working her layout & standing tuck competes L3. She uses that time to perfect L3 connections and her L4 skills.

This is absolutely the right way for gyms to be looking at situations like this! Let's get real though, if CP is 16, has a standing full, and has been on a Worlds team since she was 12, there's really no reason for her to cross to even a L4 team unless it's an emergency. I think it's been suggested somewhere on the boards, but I definitely think a uniform "leveling" process for athletes through USASF is needed, especially if there are more cases of clearly advanced Level 5 athletes competing with level 1 and 2 teams for the bulk of the season.
On the other hand, there are issues that pop up in small gyms such as having one or two athletes that are lightyears above the rest of the gym in tumbling... I can think of a gym in my area whose highest team is a Senior 4 - There are three athletes on that team throwing double fulls! Many of the other athletes on that team are not "true" level 4 athletes, but since that is the only senior age team the gym offers, they stay in that level. I have a friend from a pretty small gym that has done pretty well at Worlds over the last few years, she will tell you herself that she is not a true L5 athlete tumbling wise at all! That being said, she crosses over to a Senior 3 where she has a prominent tumbling role, mainly due to a lack of main bases on the Worlds team. I guess it's kind of a paradox when you look at it from the small gym perspective, especially due to the amount of athletes some gyms get per season.
I guess the gist of what needs to be said here is if you have someone that can fill in or cross over on a team, take them from the closest level possible unless they are a lower level athlete that's truly needed on a higher level team.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

Is a gym doesn't offer a L5 for those double fulls then those kids are competing at their highest possible team. Those 3 kids aren't going to take away from the fact there are lower level 4 skills on the team & it balances out.

Having a roster system would be great. In soccer, once a player is rostered for the remaining of the year they can only cross up 2 levels and most leagues won't let them move down at all. Our lower aged league allows a player to play down 1 level for skill development. Yes our small club has been screwed a few times by not having any players to fill in, but that can be worked around as well.

Interesting that teams are sandbagging Summit teams yet others are trying to get to Worlds with teams that have no business being there. I don't see the logic behind either decision.