All-Star Scary Fall For Mich St Cheerleader

[ErinS]

but, in your opinion, if everything else was the same except the surface the skills were performed on and she landed in the exact same manner on a spring floor do you think she would have been as badly injured?

I think she would have bounced had she been on a spring floor so no she most likely would not have been as badly injured.

Oh the other hand, I've fallen off the back of a 2-2-1 (the last year you could do 2 1/2 high pyramids during college bball games/on court)...people caught my body...nobody caught my head/neck/shoulders...and I got up and walked away perfectly fine.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

you can not do a full up on a court with or without a spot! you can do cupies though with a spot. It was a walk-in lib that they did

Hmm you can't? Thanks for the correction. I don't know why I thought you could.

 

[King]

I think she would have bounced had she been on a spring floor so no she most likely would not have been as badly injured.

Oh the other hand, I've fallen off the back of a 2-2-1 (the last year you could do 2 1/2 high pyramids during college bball games/on court)...people caught my body...nobody caught my head/neck/shoulders...and I got up and walked away perfectly fine.

I agree with you. The problem is we don't seem to all agree on whether a spring floor is safer than a hard flood.

As for your fall example I could say I know plenty of people that don't wear their seatbelt, have been in an accident, and got up and walked away. Does that mean not wearing a seatbelt is safer?

 

[laughAlittle]

I think we should keep everything on the ground, wrap cheerleaders in bubble wrap and have an ambulance next to the floor just in case someone trips over a shoe lace.

 

[King]

I think we should keep everything on the ground, wrap cheerleaders in bubble wrap and have an ambulance next to the floor just in case someone trips over a shoe lace.

is the reason you can't answer my question because you don't want to admit i am right?

to repeat: do you think, in your opinion, that if the exact same actions happened and she fell in the exact same way and landed in the exact same way except the surface she fell onto was a spring floor instead a basketball court that she would have had as serious of injuries?

heck... anyone here have an iPhone 4 (or 4s?) drop it on a spring floor (as i have done many times) and tell me if it is still ok afterwards? do the same on a basketball court.

 

[coachrah]

So the question has to be asked, if it was on spring floor would she have had as bad of an injury?

yeah but king...basketball games aren't on spring floors...so why even ask the question...it wouldn't change the situation of sideline cheer's skills and the potential for severe injury on a non-matted surface...maybe basketball players would rebound better if the game was played on spring...that would solve everything.

 

[ErinS]

I agree with you. The problem is we don't seem to all agree on whether a spring floor is safer than a hard flood.

As for your fall example I could say I know plenty of people that don't wear their seatbelt, have been in an accident, and got up and walked away. Does that mean not wearing a seatbelt is safer?

I (personally) think a hardwood floor is less safe than a spring floor...for obvious reasons. My fall story wasn't to show that doing these things on courts is okay..and it definitely wasn't to show that a court is safer....it just shows that you can fall on that surface and not end up on ESPN...however its not the worth the risk. I flew for 10 years. I've had falls on every surface (basketball courts, dead mats, spring floors, and a cement track at a football game in a basket toss gone wrong. I was in 9th grade...last year high schools could do baskets outside of competition/competition setting). Having experienced all of these falls (no injuries) I personally am more apprehensive about doing these skills on on these (basketball court) surfaces.

But. like someone else pointed...basketball games aren't spring floors (and if they were on spring floors it'd clearly be a danger to the players) so, when these falls happen and they become such a big deal in mainstream America (hey TMZ) we have to accept the fact that cheer is going to face stricter regulations in the college or school arena as a result.

 

[King]

yeah but king...basketball games aren't on spring floors...so why even ask the question...it wouldn't change the situation of sideline cheer's skills and the potential for severe injury on a non-matted surface...maybe basketball players would rebound better if the game was played on spring...that would solve everything.

since the surface cannot be changed that you perform on, the skill limits need to be changed.

 

[King]

I (personally) think a hardwood floor is less safe than a spring floor...for obvious reasons. My fall story wasn't to show that doing these things on courts is okay..and it definitely wasn't to show that a court is safer....it just shows that you can fall on that surface and not end up on ESPN...however its not the worth the risk. I flew for 10 years. I've had falls on every surface (basketball courts, dead mats, spring floors, and a cement track at a football game in a basket toss gone wrong. I was in 9th grade...last year high schools could do baskets outside of competition/competition setting). Having experienced all of these falls (no injuries) I personally am more apprehensive about doing these skills on on these (basketball court) surfaces.

But. like someone else pointed...basketball games aren't spring floors (and if they were on spring floors it'd clearly be a danger to the players) so, when these falls happen and they become such a big deal in mainstream America (hey TMZ) we have to accept the fact that cheer is going to face stricter regulations in the college or school arena as a result.

im not against stricter regulations on the court. i just don't want an accident on the court to make the restrictions bigger for ALL the parts of cheerleading... specifically competing. if all that could ever happen at games was halves and handsprings... but competition was still allowed to rewind and double full (2004 rules) then why would that be a bad thing?

 

[laughAlittle]

is the reason you can't answer my question because you don't want to admit i am right?

to repeat: do you think, in your opinion, that if the exact same actions happened and she fell in the exact same way and landed in the exact same way except the surface she fell onto was a spring floor instead a basketball court that she would have had as serious of injuries?

heck... anyone here have an iPhone 4 (or 4s?) drop it on a spring floor (as i have done many times) and tell me if it is still ok afterwards? do the same on a basketball court.

its not a matter if hard wood floors vs. spring floors are more safe. BOTH can be dangerous at any time. theres plenty of videos to prove it. if you want to eliminate all risk, then why not limit the things allstar cheer can do too? this would prevent any injury from happening. you say you want to make cheer safer, but you have no plan to make allstar cheer safer. there was even talk to get rid of skills that include things like whip doubles & you said you are against getting rid of them. just like you said before about getting rid of fulls in HS, why cant that be applied to allstar cheer as well. you say just as many people would do HS cheer, wouldnt just as many people do AS cheer? those learning it (whip dubs) would just have to stop, EVERYONE else who doesnt have it could learn things that go by the new rules. jsut because you have a double back, does not mean you get to perform it. I can not find any reason to your logic. you are trying to eliminate HS cheerleader's abilities, while doing nothing to AS cheerleaders. true?

 

[King]

its not a matter if hard wood floors vs. spring floors are more safe. BOTH can be dangerous at any time. theres plenty of videos to prove it. if you want to eliminate all risk, then why not limit the things allstar cheer can do too? this would prevent any injury from happening. you say you want to make cheer safer, but you have no plan to make allstar cheer safer. there was even talk to get rid of skills that include things like whip doubles & you said you are against getting rid of them. just like you said before about getting rid of fulls in HS, why cant that be applied to allstar cheer as well. you say just as many people would do HS cheer, wouldnt just as many people do AS cheer? those learning it (whip dubs) would just have to stop, EVERYONE else who doesnt have it could learn things that go by the new rules. jsut because you have a double back, does not mean you get to perform it. I can not find any reason to your logic. you are trying to eliminate HS cheerleader's abilities, while doing nothing to AS cheerleaders. true?

it isn't about eliminating all risk. it is about approaching an acceptable level of risk. maybe that is why you misunderstand? because if could you understand it is about an acceptable level of risk then you would also then understand why it DOES matter that wood floors are less safe than hard floors that are less safe than spring floors. the safer the surface the more difficult a skill you can attempt on that surface because there is a more acceptable level of risk.

there is risk in EVERYTHING we do. walking down the street has a level of risk. chewing food too fast and swallowing too big of pieces has a level of risk. you have a chance of being struck by a meteor or that a serial killer is in your house right now and you don't know it. now... all those things probably have an acceptable level of risk so you don't worry about them. you do probably worry about things that have a higher potential for being dangerous. going 150 on the highway has a high level of risk. walking in central park at 3am. swimming in shark infested waters. What I am trying to do is approach the situation and see what skills carry what level of risk on what surface.

and you again still haven't answered my question. would you like me to repeat it?

 

[laughAlittle]

it isn't about eliminating all risk. it is about approaching an acceptable level of risk. maybe that is why you misunderstand? because if could you understand it is about an acceptable level of risk then you would also then understand why it DOES matter that wood floors are less safe than hard floors that are less safe than spring floors. the safer the surface the more difficult a skill you can attempt on that surface because there is a more acceptable level of risk.

there is risk in EVERYTHING we do. walking down the street has a level of risk. chewing food too fast and swallowing too big of pieces has a level of risk. you have a chance of being struck by a meteor or that a serial killer is in your house right now and you don't know it. now... all those things probably have an acceptable level of risk so you don't worry about them. you do probably worry about things that have a higher potential for being dangerous. going 150 on the highway has a high level of risk. walking in central park at 3am. swimming in shark infested waters. What I am trying to do is approach the situation and see what skills carry what level of risk on what surface.

and you again still haven't answered my question. would you like me to repeat it?

please dont insult my intelligence....... youre post still doesnt make logical sense. theres seems to be an alternative motive behind limiting what HS cheerleaders can do.

 

[WorkToWin]

please dont insult my intelligence....... youre post still doesnt make logical sense. theres seems to be an alternative motive behind limiting what HS cheerleaders can do.

Not to get in the middle of your conversation, but can you elaborate what part doesn't make sense? From my understanding he is saying limit the skills on unsafe surfaces. If all stars competed on a basketball court, I'm sure he would say the same thing about limiting AS more as well. I am trying to understand your posts, so if you can elaborate that would be great... and also answer his question instead of avoiding it might help me understand what you are trying to say too.

 

[laughAlittle]

Not to get in the middle of your conversation, but can you elaborate what part doesn't make sense? From my understanding he is saying limit the skills on unsafe surfaces. If all stars competed on a basketball court, I'm sure he would say the same thing about limiting AS more as well. I am trying to understand your posts, so if you can elaborate that would be great... and also answer his question instead of avoiding it might help me understand what you are trying to say too.

feel free in join in, more opinion help ( :

Im saying that AS cheer does skills that are 10x more dangerous than HS cheer, HS cheers on a surface that is 10x more dangerous to compete on. why is the only solution is limit what HS cheer can do, why not limit AS as well.

 

[King]

feel free in join in, more opinion help ( :

Im saying that AS cheer does skills that are 10x more dangerous than HS cheer, HS cheers on a surface that is 10x more dangerous to compete on. why is the only solution is limit what HS cheer can do, why not limit AS as well.

if all-star is 10 times more danger, but the high school surface is 10 times more dangerous then we should see an even number of injuries. but per participant over time high schools have a much higher incident of injury, so the numbers are not quite that even. So if high school has the higher incidence of injury then that is the discipline of cheerleading to approach first.

we are also not taking into account all-star cheerleaders train year round in with highly perishable skills while high school participants are limited into how much they can train and their facilities. as well game day scenarios where cheerleaders are not the focus but the supporters if a cheerleader best injured doing a risky skill and it stops the game it is a high profile incidence. a basketball player getting injured at a basketball game, to most people, is an acceptable risk. a football player getting injured at a football game is an acceptable risk. a cheerleader getting injured at a cheerleading competition is more acceptable than a cheerleader getting injured supporting another sport and stopping that event.