All-Star Scary Fall For Mich St Cheerleader

[laughAlittle]

if all-star is 10 times more danger, but the high school surface is 10 times more dangerous then we should see an even number of injuries. but per participant over time high schools have a much higher incident of injury, so the numbers are not quite that even. So if high school has the higher incidence of injury then that is the discipline of cheerleading to approach first.

we are also not taking into account all-star cheerleaders train year round in with highly perishable skills while high school participants are limited into how much they can train and their facilities. as well game day scenarios where cheerleaders are not the focus but the supporters if a cheerleader best injured doing a risky skill and it stops the game it is a high profile incidence. a basketball player getting injured at a basketball game, to most people, is an acceptable risk. a football player getting injured at a football game is an acceptable risk. a cheerleader getting injured at a cheerleading competition is more acceptable than a cheerleader getting injured supporting another sport and stopping that event.

I say its never acceptable for a cheerleader to get injured, nor anyone in any sport. yes, injuries happen, but that does not mean that "acceptable". true?

 

[King]

I say its never acceptable for a cheerleader to get injured, nor anyone in any sport. yes, injuries happen, but that does not mean that "acceptable". true?

false. you can't stop injuries. you can reduce them to be an acceptable level. the NFL is doing this exact thing in different ways. no leading with your helmet, kickoffs now 5 yards farther up, to reduce the amount of head inures in the NFL. but they didn't stop playing football.

 

[ErinS]

im not against stricter regulations on the court. i just don't want an accident on the court to make the restrictions bigger for ALL the parts of cheerleading... specifically competing. if all that could ever happen at games was halves and handsprings... but competition was still allowed to rewind and double full (2004 rules) then why would that be a bad thing?

Well performing those stunts during basketball games isn't exactly how teams become competition ready anyway....however the possible effect of limited stunts at games and less strict competitive rules would be more skilled cheerleaders wouldn't want to do game cheer because its boring. As a result you'd end up with less talented cheerleaders making collegiate squads and they'd still want to be competitive so they'd go to competitions and do skills they can't master and fail horribly....they'd probably end up hurt as well.

Then the next response (as we've already seen) is game cheerleaders and competition cheerleaders. Schools claim this is expensive and can't "afford" to support both so adios competitive cheer because we need people to stand and be pretty at the games.... anyway... we all know where I am going with this and where other programs have already gone...

 

[laughAlittle]

false. you can't stop injuries. you can reduce them to be an acceptable level. the NFL is doing this exact thing in different ways. no leading with your helmet, kickoffs now 5 yards farther up, to reduce the amount of head inures in the NFL. but they didn't stop playing football.

theyre limiting what football players can do, just like it would be fair and beneficial to limit what allstar cheer can do. I never said to "stop" cheer.

 

[King]

Well performing those stunts during basketball games isn't exactly how teams become competition ready anyway....however the possible effect of limited stunts at games and less strict competitive rules would be more skilled cheerleaders wouldn't want to do game cheer because its boring. As a result you'd end up with less talented cheerleaders making collegiate squads and they'd still want to be competitive so they'd go to competitions and do skills they can't master and fail horribly....they'd probably end up hurt as well.

Then the next response (as we've already seen) is game cheerleaders and competition cheerleaders. Schools claim this is expensive and can't "afford" to support both so adios competitive cheer because we need people to stand and be pretty at the games.... anyway... we all know where I am going with this and where other programs have already gone...

that started happening when they began limiting tumbling at college nationals. the small little tumbler boys who many not be great at stunting no longer had a place in college cheer. when IOC 5 became an option we saw that division grow rather fast. if game day stuff isn't restricted more in college then i also see more high profile accidents and then college cheer will be a shell of what it was... then IOC 6 will rise even farther (it is a rather large division as well).

i DONT want college competitive or high school cheer to go away. but i want it to exist in a way thats sustainable and limits the possibility of high profile injuries that will limit what we love. i don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

 

[King]

theyre limiting what football players can do, just like it would be fair and beneficial to limit what allstar cheer can do. I never said to "stop" cheer.

so your argument in all this is that you think both high school and all-star should be limited. not limiting all-star out of spite for high school being more restricted, but that you believe the current level of injuries in all forms of cheerleading is too high and we need more limits. What limits do you propose to impose on all-star and high school? They obviously cannot be equal because you have said that high school is a much more dangerous surface, so I would like to see what you propose. maybe you have an answer I haven't thought of before.

 

[laughAlittle]

so your argument in all this is that you think both high school and all-star should be limited. not limiting all-star out of spite for high school being more restricted, but that you believe the current level of injuries in all forms of cheerleading is too high and we need more limits. What limits do you propose to impose on all-star and high school? They obviously cannot be equal because you have said that high school is a much more dangerous surface, so I would like to see what you propose. maybe you have an answer I haven't thought of before.

I actually think nothing should be limited, I just dont think its fair to only limit one, when the other has many risks as well. Im playing devil's advocate trying to find a legitimate reason why someone could only limit HS. but I cant find any reason why this would be done. I personally think that people want to limit HS so bad because they want those girls to go into AS cheer, which is not fair in my opinion.

 

[ErinS]

that started happening when they began limiting tumbling at college nationals. the small little tumbler boys who many not be great at stunting no longer had a place in college cheer. when IOC 5 became an option we saw that division grow rather fast. if game day stuff isn't restricted more in college then i also see more high profile accidents and then college cheer will be a shell of what it was... then IOC 6 will rise even farther (it is a rather large division as well).

i DONT want college competitive or high school cheer to go away. but i want it to exist in a way thats sustainable and limits the possibility of high profile injuries that will limit what we love. i don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Its unfortunate. When a (college) cheerleader gets hurt, everyone rushes to make that injury an example. In any other sport someone gets hurt and its "oh well accidents happen, its apart of the game".

You cant win. But at the end of the day...a basketball court is a wooden floor and to outsiders...and cheer industry people as well..stacking people on top of people on a basketball court....well they're just going to say that those are potential injuries that can be avoided by eliminating the risk all together.

I mean I don't know what to tell you. Too much restriction...people wont do school cheer....not enough restriction...people will keep cracking their heads on gym floors

 

[King]

I actually think nothing should be limited, I just dont think its fair to only limit one, when the other has many risks as well. Im playing devil's advocate trying to find a legitimate reason why someone could only limit HS. but I cant find any reason why this would be done. I personally think that people want to limit HS so bad because they want those girls to go into AS cheer, which is not fair in my opinion.

so this whole time it has nothing to do with safety... it has nothing to do with improving cheerleading... you are arguing because you think anyone who would want to limit high school cheerleading is doing it to strictly to get more girls in all-star cheerleading? and you don't care that high schoolers across the country are competing on a surface that is 10 times more dangerous with less training, less able coaches (in general), and a shorter season but they are still competing MANY skills that an all-star squad would compete?

 

[King]

Its unfortunate. When a (college) cheerleader gets hurt, everyone rushes to make that injury an example. In any other sport someone gets hurt and its "oh well accidents happen, its apart of the game".

You cant win. But at the end of the day...a basketball court is a wooden floor and to outsiders...and cheer industry people as well..stacking people on top of people on a basketball court....well they're just going to say that those are potential injuries that can be avoided by eliminating the risk all together.

I mean I don't know what to tell you. Too much restriction...people wont do school cheer....not enough restriction...people will keep cracking their heads on gym floors

is it worth going through why competitive college cheer is dying anyway? its not just limitation of skills. But small amount of skills, very little infrastructure, few times to compete during the year, fewer qualified coaches, a common misconception that all college cheerleading is coed, expensive for a university to support (or a broke college student), and the fact that all-star has surpassed it as the top of cheerleading.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

im not against stricter regulations on the court. i just don't want an accident on the court to make the restrictions bigger for ALL the parts of cheerleading... specifically competing. if all that could ever happen at games was halves and handsprings... but competition was still allowed to rewind and double full (2004 rules) then why would that be a bad thing?

Because in college we cheered almost year round.... volleyball and football then gymnastics and basketball and then we competed from November roughly through January at UCA Nationals. So limit immensely what collegiate cheerleaders can do fo 10 months and let them amp it up for 2? That would make the sport boring. How would you prepare for nationals? Also, we have generally 18 couples each year 9 on Gold (varsity) and 9 on Purple (Jv) of those 36 only 16 compete.

 

[King]

Because in college we cheered almost year round.... volleyball and football then gymnastics and basketball and then we competed from November roughly through January at UCA Nationals. So limit immensely what collegiate cheerleaders can do fo 10 months and let them amp it up for 2? That would make the sport boring. How would you prepare for nationals? Also, we have generally 18 couples each year 9 on Gold (varsity) and 9 on Purple (Jv) of those 36 only 16 compete.

Why would that limit what you can do year round? You only practiced new skills at games in front of people ? That doesn't seem safe. I used to practice all the time on spring floors year round in college and would be proficient before I would try them in front of a crowd.

 

[AndyT_T]

it isn't about knowing, it is about opinion. you can form an opinion based on what you know and what you think would likely would have happened, can't you?

I think if you force spring floor on college cheer you'll get rid of sideline cheer and/or stunting at games at all.
This are big girls, they knew the risk when they joined the team. Ish happens, it's the nature of the beast.

 

[AndyT_T]

Not to get in the middle of your conversation, but can you elaborate what part doesn't make sense? From my understanding he is saying limit the skills on unsafe surfaces. If all stars competed on a basketball court, I'm sure he would say the same thing about limiting AS more as well. I am trying to understand your posts, so if you can elaborate that would be great... and also answer his question instead of avoiding it might help me understand what you are trying to say too.

Point of clarification. No surface is "safe"
Just some are safer than others.

My sister is a physical therapist and all she ever talks about is how what we're pushing our bodies to do isn't what they're made to do and it's bad for us.

 

[Ashley]

I think if you force spring floor on college cheer you'll get rid of sideline cheer and/or stunting at games at all.
This are big girls, they knew the risk when they joined the team. Ish happens, it's the nature of the beast.

Not only that, but hard floors (no springs) are relatively cheap and easy to roll out for practice and roll back up after. I went to college in Western Mass, there's not a lot out there and there certainly weren't any all-star programs closer than a 45 minute drive. We didn't have access to practice on a spring floor, and there's no way that the school would have given us the space to keep a spring floor set up. I don't know where and how gymnastics practiced - the program was cut before I got there. In fact, my freshman year many of the senior boys were the last remnants of the former men's team, most of whom converted to cheerleading when gymnastics was cut.

Plus, that girls injuries could probably have been prevented with a hard mat and no springs. This doesn't need to be a spring floor vs. hard floor debate. This is a hard basketball court vs. mat debate.