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Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by Sterling von Shimmer, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. wishfulthinking

    wishfulthinking Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Does the Kernersville location only have 1 full-sized floor? I swear that's the only one we see during their videos. If that's true, that's incredibly efficient considering the amount of teams that location is juggling.

     
  2. UCFKnights07

    UCFKnights07 Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    yes i believe so. i think they also have a smaller half sized floor though as well.
     
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  3. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    That’s actually a really good point. All the other LAG gyms come from pretty heavily populated areas compared to CEA (of the four gyms with LAG teams, population-wise it goes Plano, Marietta, Freehold, Kville). And when you consider the number of girls you need to even enter LAG — regardless of whether they’re even talented or not — that’s a pretty big accomplishment alone for CEA.

    The fact that they’re the only game in town doesn’t hurt, but still it’s not as if they’ve got the CA advantage of being a big deal gym in a state known for cheerleading.
     
  4. cheerbowgirl101

    cheerbowgirl101 They call me Susie

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    Agreed. I’m not the biggest SE or even CEA fan, but my fairly small(D1 but definitely not the likes of CA) gym has 3 full sized spring floors and a full sized dead mat. And we field one worlds team a season.
     
  5. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    It seems like a small town surrounded on all sides by places that are still not really that big. So you probably have no choice but to grow your own talent from Mini Elite up and grow it quickly-ish (e.g. kids coming in as Mini Elite and ideally growing a level per year.)

    Sort of like Small Town High School. If you're not in a heavy cheer area with gyms, classes, multiple feeder middle schools, rec programs, etc. you have to rely on kids coming in with little experience and 0 tumbling and grow them quick starting in 7th or 8th or 9th.
     
  6. luv2cheer92

    luv2cheer92 Moderator Staff Member Bracket Winner Video Curator

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    At one point in time CSP said in a thread on here that if a kid didn't move up a level each year it felt like a failure. So that mindset is definitely there.
     
  7. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I have always enjoyed watching CEA's higher level teams, but I'm in agreement with you, most of the drama surrounding CEA I've heard has to do with how they work their strategies within the rules. That's where I feel "don't hate the player, hate the game" comes in. What I am surprised to hear, if it's true, is that most of their talent is home grown, because CEA has most of their success in levels 4 and 5. Their lower levels don't reflect the same success as their higher levels and most successful World's gyms have become destination gyms for high level athletes. When I think of "home grown" I think of California All Stars and Cheer Athletics that are consistently successful in every single level and in the most competitive divisions. With that said, those gyms also have many destination athletes coming to World's tryouts.

    These are the results of Summit 2019 for CEA:

    Level 1:
    Wild Card: Purple Crowns (Richmond) 23rd out of 26, Ladybugs (Raleigh) 7th out of 7
    No teams in Semi's or Finals.

    Level 2:
    Wild Card: Lucky Charms (Chicago) 22nd out of 26, Sparkle (Raleigh) 32nd out of 38, Slay (Maryland) 7th out of 16
    No teams in Semi's or Finals

    Level 3:
    Wild Card: Vogue (Chicago) 18th out of 39, Glamour Queens (Maryland) 7th out of 23, Golden Girls (Richmond) 22nd out of 23, Rage (Chicago) 7th out of 8, Sr Coed 3lite 1st out of 4
    Semis: Emeralds (Roanoke) 17th out of 37, Jr 3lite Queens (Raleigh) 24th out of 25, Gucci (Chattanooga) 11th out of 11, Coex (Location ?) 12th out of 13
    Finals: Sr Coed 3lite 10th out of 12

    Level 4:
    Wild Card: Angles 4.2 (Raleigh) 2nd out of 3, Jr 4lite (Raleigh) 2nd out of 17, Berries (Raleigh) 1st out of 6
    Semis: Youth X Sharkbites (Raleigh) 1st out of 1, Sr 4lite (Raleigh) 7th out of 31, C4 (Location ?) 1st out of 13
    Finals: Angels 4.2 (Raleigh) 2nd out of 6, Youth X Sharkbites (Raleigh) 1st out of 1, Jr 4lite (Raleigh) 7th out of 15, Sr 4lite (Raleigh) 5th out of 19, C4 (Location ?) 1st out of 12, Berries (Raleigh) 4th out of 12

    Level 5:
    Wild Card: Princesses (Charlotte) 2nd out of 4, SRX (Raleigh) 3rd out of 5, Crush 1st out of 1
    Semis: Fireflies (Charlotte) 1st out of 1, JRX (Raleigh) 1st out of 1, Monarchs (Charlotte) 2nd out of 2, SJX (Raleigh) 3rd out of 5, Obsession (Chicago) 2nd out of 3
    Finals: Fireflies (Charlotte) 1st out of 1, Princesses (Charlotte) 2nd out of 8, JRX (Raleigh) 1st out of 2, Monarchs (Charlotte) 2nd out of 7, SJX 3rd out of 8, Obsession (Chicago) 3rd out of 4, Crush 2nd out of 4
     
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  8. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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  9. quitthedrama

    quitthedrama I buy my Insta followers

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    You missed the part where CSP has said that generally speaking her athletes move up a level each year. Those lower level teams are competing against gyms that have kids on the same level for 2-6 years. Those two very different coaching philosophies will produce very different results. To me homegrown is your worlds athletes having been with the program for several years and coming from your lower level teams.
     
  10. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    ^^^^

    I will say that CSP has been very vocal about how a good bit of their SE/Coed/LL talent is very much homegrown and has been cheering together in some form for a long time - there's an article floating around out there from a few seasons ago about how her kids and others came up through Mini Elite to Glitter Penguins to Youth Elite to Crush to SE/Coed. Or in other daughter's case, from those teams to 4.2 to LL.

    Similar to how World Cup grows talent from say, Dippers to Twinkles to Lites to Suns/Odyssey to Stars.
     
  11. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Actually, the reason I posted was because someone said CSP said her athletes moved up a level each year, and that most of her World athletes were home grown (our definition is the same). I don't want anyone to take my post wrong, when I say "surprised," I'm truly surprised. I was assuming based on lower level results she must have a lot of destination athletes coming specifically for World's tryouts. Nothing, IMO, is wrong with that, she's a strategic World's coach and that attracts athletes. I'll rephrase and say, I'm truly surprised her athletes are able to catch up competitively by level 4. I would have assumed, based on her lower level results, she had a lot of destination athletes coming in for World's since her levels 1-3 aren't as competitive. Obviously, her philosophy works, she has a successful gym, and that must mean stamina, strength, technique, and elite skills must kick in for many of her athletes around year 4. No shade, that's fascinating to me.
     
  12. 123jump4!

    123jump4! I have my own cheer message board

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    In most other sports spending more time on lower levels doesn’t mean someone will be better when they reach a higher level. More the opposite? I remember watching CEA’s Mini 2 and thinking it was a mess, but still admiring them for even having level 2 skills at all at that age.

    I’m not posting as a CEA fan but I can understand why she doesn’t think it’s important to be competitive at lower levels. For them it’s about progressing quickly to higher levels.
     
  13. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Here's the actual article where she talks about why she started many of the current SE girls on Mini Elite - Mini 3 and also why her athletes do not usually spend multiple years on L1 or 2. (Mini Elite still exists but is now M2 obviously.)

    A New Generation of Senior Elite | Cheer Extreme

    The program did not have options, or depth of widespread talent pool (per/location) to field multiple teams in different age groups at different levels. She says, “we had to grow them together, they had to cheer together… it was not an option” of how they progressed skills together over the last decade. Pope when pressed on what aided in making this happen, she credits the now retired division, Mini 3, for part of the athlete and team’s success. Adding, “they never had to learn Level 1 or 2 stunts. They never had to break the habits of flying reclined on their back spot from the very onset of their careers.”

    Some outside perspective - hate it or love it, this happens a lot in HS cheer world, granted the kids are older. If you are not in a cheer-heavy area but are trying to be competitive, you are usually trying to take 7th, 8th, 9th graders and sometimes older than that - and somehow get them to flip at some point in the year. And you usually are not going to start with BWO, rolls, and cartwheels. You tend to start them off with Level 2. Same with stunts. Our JV and MS regularly got kids who had never stunted. If you're growing kids from ground up, they're not starting with the same lib as Tiny 1. You are probably starting them at prep level extensions with heavy support. Best practice? That's debateable - but in reality time is of the essence when you have to grow kids from the ground up.

    Along the same lines - how many people on here have kids who have progressed into higher level teams but can't BWO to save their lives? Or were never even on a Level 1 team? I remember hearing on this board that someone's gym starts all their Never Cheered Before athletes on 4.2 because there is no Senior 1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  14. cheerbowgirl101

    cheerbowgirl101 They call me Susie

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    This entire thread fascinates me. It’s really less of a discussion about CEA, but about different coaching styles and program developments.
     
  15. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I can't speak for all sports, but I do know the gymnastic programs around here stress slower progression for their athletes. With that said, you work with what you have and I find it impressive it works for them.

    @oncecoolcoachnowmom thanks for posting the article. I definitely don't see a bwo being an end all skill for cheer. With that said, I'm definitely seeing a lot of current level 2 and 3 athletes with phenomenal bhs and running tuck technique with the recent slowed progression. Gym's that have slowed progression, also, are requiring additional elite level skills such as valdez, front handsprings, punch fronts, aerials, etc. and I wonder how that will translate in the level 6 teams 4-5 years from now. It may or may not make a big difference with additional elite level 6 tumble skills, if anything, I would love to believe slower progression in all star will translate into less injuries and fewer blocks.