All-Star Suggestions For Improving Scoring

[WyldWon]

I think it would be helpful if coaches value their routines...such as 5 hitch kick full baskets, 13 running fulls, 5 running doubles, 4 standing fulls...etc therefore a judge has a baseline and can keep an eye out for deductions and execution...not sure I'm explaining it correctly LOL

 

[Supermom]

Until there is a universal score sheet and a universal rule book, there is no way to have fair and consistant judging. How in the world can you compare teams when the rules are different and the deductions and scoring are different at every competition. Untill all the industry leading event producers work together to make things consistant this sport will never be taken seriously. The sooner a true and singular governing body is put into place the better for everyone.

There really needs to be some sort of certification for judges.

Judges also need to be held accountable immediatly for their scores. They also need to be seperated so that their judgements are their own and are not influenced by the other judges on the panel.

 

[gofriars610]

I can't believe there isn't already a universal scoresheet! All-Star has existed for a very long time...this is nuts.
The universal scoresheet (when developed) MUST allow lots of points for originality, or else teams are just going to play to the rules of the scoresheet and have cookie cutter routines. Check out the video of the NCATA finals...the routines were boring! There was no sparkle in them. I don't want to see All-Star turned into that.
(This is not meant to hate on maryland or oregon by the way...it was just such a weird change and I didn't like it)

 

[Katybugmom]

More coaches don't want details public than do.

(NCA didn't ask)

What are the coaches scared of the public knowing????hmmmm sounds fishy!

 

[Katybugmom]

I have no clue if some EP's do this but is video replay something that would help? I think it would be hard to see everything in 2:30 min. I know some EP's have 2 panel of judges sitting next to each other and they rotate between a jr then sr team so the judges have 2:30 minutes to finalize scores before they have to judge the next team. What do yall think about video replay?

 

[Katybugmom]

Ok, read Jamfest's scoresheets. Seems like you get double difficulty for pyramids and stunts. There is a quantity score which I would be interested in how that works exactly. Because difficulty is kinda a double value quantity doesnt mean as much. Otherwise it seems very similar to NCA's.

Any thought on what skills should be worth more than others and why? I have seen people suggest that certain skills should be worth less than others and I am curious what is the reasoning behind this. To me all parts of cheer matter equally. It is kinda like special teams in football. Though they should be on the field probably the least amount of time out of offense, defense, and special teams, they can make the difference between the winner and loser if you neglect them. Touchdowns scored off of special tams are worth as much as ones scored when the offense is on the field. So why make jumps, dance, transitions, or any of the extras worth less than say just one categories... stunts?

three pointers are worth more because they are more difficult. Running in after a touchdown is worth more than a field goal. So they do differentiate scores.

 

[cupieqt]

I don't think coaches don't want you to see their scoresheets not b/c of something shady but maybe because they don't want YOU to know what areas they are lacking in and areas you could improve to come back and beat them.

I think I am ok with it but that's b/c I'm a competitor and I stand behind what we put on the mat.

 

[MissBee]

With the majority of the costs of judges at a competition being travel and accommodations, is it worth the increase in registration fees I assume would happen if more judges are needed?

Hire local as much as possible, but especially for L1-3 (maybe only hire local judges at that level), spend the travel/hotel fees on the L4-6 judges-as that is where your world's bid money is going-you want the most experience you can get there.

 

[King]

three pointers are worth more because they are more difficult. Running in after a touchdown is worth more than a field goal. So they do differentiate scores.

That is fine, but what is the most difficult thing in cheerleading? I would argue proper jumping because only 3 gyms do it that well. I know a lot of gyms who basket and stunt well. There are plenty of amazing tumbling gyms. Does that mean because so few do it well it is the hardest?

 

[Doubledown]

I think it would be helpful if coaches value their routines...such as 5 hitch kick full baskets, 13 running fulls, 5 running doubles, 4 standing fulls...etc therefore a judge has a baseline and can keep an eye out for deductions and execution...not sure I'm explaining it correctly LOL

Assuming what was valued is correctly stated. So many teams use smoke and mirror--- hard to say EXACTLY what they have...

 

[Aussiekat]

Teams get bids from different events according to what those events value the most in a routines, like Jamfest and their double difficulty for pyramids and stunts. Not every gym is going to be good at everything consistently, and I kinda like that the different styles come together at Worlds to battle it out (not that I'm saying Worlds scoresheets are the right universal model). @BlueCat mentioned on another thread about matrix scoring, having judges score each section out of a standard 10 and EPs can then multiply them to reflect their bias - stunting, tumbling, jumps, dance etc. I think that a universal standard 10 for decreases the likelihood of judge error and confusion over multiple scoresheets, but still gives EPs the leeway to present and run their competitions according to their preferences. Is this too naïve a proposal?

 

[King]

I am confused how you come up with "double difficulty" on these scoresheets? Do you mean because pyramids and stunts are scored separately? Half of our competitions are Jam Brands, and I have always felt their scoresheets were pretty fair. Then again, we are in Wiscsonin and don't travel to NCA or Cheersport. Although I guess we do one UCA competition and I think the scoresheet is the same as NCA. I guess I have always felt like Jam Brands does a better job of addressing quantities. From my experience with UCA it is mostly based on difficulty for the majority of the team (half +1) and technique. Jam Brands gives a breakdown of quantities as it scores more specifically than half plus 1. So if you have 18 our of 20 kids throwing double BHS in a level 3 routine, then you would score higher than if you had 12 our of 20 doing it. Hope that makes sense.

Just saw this! Sorry for the late reply.

Stunts and pyramids have two separate scores for difficulty and load-ins / transitions. Maybe I am confused as to how they arrive to those scores, but to me difficulty in stunting has always come in form the transitions and load-ins?

 

[WyldWon]

Assuming what was valued is correctly stated. So many teams use smoke and mirror--- hard to say EXACTLY what they have...

That what viedo replay is for and a BIG deduction for smoke n mirroring...lol

 

[Deleted member 15]

Most soccer matches, especially rec games, are usually at night and on weekends. And if you're working with a local association, travel really isn't an issue. Even if you're always an assistant on a U12 game as a grade 9 referee, you should be able to recoup your certification costs after just a few games.

Now, if you want to work out-of-town tournaments, yeah, there's travel involved. But most tournaments I've worked pay mileage and a per diem. Some pay for your motel. But you often only get into those tournaments if you're a grade 7 (or sometimes a grade 8) referee - and you only can move up to those grades if you've reffed so many games, gotten positive assesments and passed a fitness test.

How about the certification/re-certification alone. Is it done locally after work or on a weekend or are there additional expenses related to it such as travel and time off work?

I'm trying to compare it to rules judge training, which was done in about 8 cites last year. It required a 6 hour drive and an overnight stay in addition to the cost of the course and test.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I think it would be helpful if coaches value their routines...such as 5 hitch kick full baskets, 13 running fulls, 5 running doubles, 4 standing fulls...etc therefore a judge has a baseline and can keep an eye out for deductions and execution...not sure I'm explaining it correctly LOL

This is done for NCA College.