OT To Greek Or Not To Greek

[SharkDad]

@krystynakrez like all over it? Cool video

 

[krystynakrez]

@krystynakrez like all over it? Cool video

lol fair enough

 

[12mowerd]

Rape doesn't happen just at frats, and not just by brothers. Rape happens at the bar, at the club, in the dorm rooms. Everywhere. To freshmen, upper classmen or anyone- keep your drink with you at all times, use a lid if possible or keep your hand over the cover. Know your limits.

My best friend has been raped by a brother, she has also been raped by a man out and about. Instead of generalizing it to just frats and brothers, be aware that it is everywhere.

My biggest piece of advice to incoming freshmen is please know your limits. It's a lot harder to say no or get help when you're blackout. Go out with friends who will be there to help if you go over the top.

 

[SharkDad]

lol fair enough

There are a lot of documented possible positives from Greek life.

I'm glad it's going great for you

 

[AScheer]

If you're doing a study to prove a point, just dig long and hard enough and you'll eventually find enough pieces of evidence to prove your point.

I was Greek, and I can only think of one incident that happened while I was active. No I don't know everything about everyone, but so far the studies haven't matched up with the facts a lot of Greek members on this board have experienced. The numbers, while extremely limited, already skew in a different direction.

What about football though? We constantly hear of all these college football players assaulting women, much more than we hear about fraternity boys. We could assume and do studies on how being a college football player = rapist. So following the string of theories stated where fraternity member = rapist, sorority member = victim; then can we also say football player = rapist, cheerleader = victim. I took many critical thinking classes in college where we were taught to question everything. You can't believe something just because a study is printed or someone of importance said it. My point is anyone can do a study to prove the outcome they want if they dig hard enough.

On a side note, has anyone heard of the date rape nail polish? Some college kids invented it. If you stick the tip of your finger in your drink, the polish will change colors if there are drugs in it. I think this is an amazing idea!

 

[CheerTeamNerd]

On a side note, has anyone heard of the date rape nail polish? Some college kids invented it. If you stick the tip of your finger in your drink, the polish will change colors if there are drugs in it. I think this is an amazing idea!

Students develop nail polish to detect date-rape drugs - The Washington Post

Here's a link. It's awful that we live in a world where it is necessary to stick your hand in your drink to feel safe. I'm long done with college and have never been put in a situation where I think this would be necessary (for me personally), but this is a great idea.

 

[getsum]

If you're doing a study to prove a point, just dig long and hard enough and you'll eventually find enough pieces of evidence to prove your point. My point is anyone can do a study to prove the outcome they want if they dig hard enough.

that is an opinion that, aside from being tried to be passed off as something factual and is not, does not have any supporting evidence. also, fyi: science nor scientists never ever seek to prove anything, as that can't be done. science and scientists seek to find the most current and correct explanation of a phenomena through observation or experimentation through the acquisition of data.

I took many critical thinking classes in college where we were taught to question everything. You can't believe something just because a study is printed or someone of importance said it.

this isn't just one study nor is the evidence being done by someone of "importance".[/QUOTE]

this isn't just one study nor is the evidence being done by someone of "importance". these are multiple studies done by 20+ scientists. skepticism is good, but only if followed up with a proper critique of the evidence in question. simply saying "i don't believe it, just because i don't like what i'm hearing/reading", and i believe that's the only reason people have been objecting to the evidence, is not a proper critique nor a healthy form of skepticism.

(1)What about football though? We constantly hear of all these college football players assaulting women, much more than we hear about fraternity boys. (2)We could assume and do studies on how being a college football player = rapist. So following the string of theories stated where fraternity member = rapist, sorority member = victim; (3)then can we also say football player = rapist, cheerleader = victim.

for the first (1) part: what data do you have to support that football players are engaging in sexual assault at a higher rate? youtube and 10 o'olock PM news stories gathered from memory are not even close to proper data. for the second (2) part: what string of theories are you talking about? none of the studies even came remotely close to saying that being a fraternity member equates to being a rapist or being a sorority member equates to being a victim of rape. did you even read even just one of the studies? if you did, you would not have said that. for the last (3) part: if your = statements were even true, and they're not, that last statement is a hasty generalization; a logical fallacy.

I was Greek, and I can only think of one incident that happened while I was active. No I don't know everything about everyone, but so far the studies haven't matched up with the facts a lot of Greek members on this board have experienced. The numbers, while extremely limited, already skew in a different direction.

this is nothing more than anecdotal evidence. your n=1 college life case study, which by the way is very limited seeing as how you didn't know everything done by everyone, along with the others who have used this form of argument, doesn't trump or in any way shape or form come even close to providing evidence to contradict what the 16 studies have come to find, and their samples went into the n=1000+. you didn't conduct a proper experiment, so to try and say that the collective n=4 experiences of the members in this thread, that have spoken up, is evidence to show that the 16 studies aren't valid nor reliable is, sorry, pretty asinine. that's like if i were to say: my 5 friends and i have never known anyone killed by a drunk driver. therefor, drunk driving statistics are most likely exaggerated.

people might think that im just being a hardass, but it boggles my mind that there is strong evidence to suggest that a certain group is at a greater risk of being harmed and a certain group has a tendency to view women in a negative way and have an increased tendency to engage in negative acts, and people try to downplay it simply to protect the reputation of those groups. i find that to be highly unethical. people should be informed and not be blinded by anecdotal evidence or lackluster "arguments" coupled by with pop-culture statistics terms such as skewed. and, no, the aforementioned evidence, in my first post, does not in any way shape or form negate or suggest to negate the positive experience that one can gain from participating in greek life.

 

[ryann3794]

So.over.this. THREAD.


Can we stop the Greek stereotyping and bring this back to the original thread? Start your own if you want to talk about rape.

 

[Emily]

science nor scientists never ever seek to prove anything, as that can't be done

If you truly think that statement is true you should take a statistics class! I actually did take a class where all we did was take studies (ones that got published over and over for their results) and find flaws in them. There wasn't a single study where we didn't find any major flaws in, and if I had the time I would go through the study you posted about and find the flaws in that one... maybe I'll find some time during the next week to finally bring this thread back to what it was.

 

[Ren]

On a different note... I feel this may have been asked before in this thread but I don't remember the answer so sorry if I'm repeating something! But I'm thinking of heading over to the states to do a Masters and wondered if you can still get involved in Greek life as a postgrad? Or is it undergrads only?

 

[cheerKT]

On a different note... I feel this may have been asked before in this thread but I don't remember the answer so sorry if I'm repeating something! But I'm thinking of heading over to the states to do a Masters and wondered if you can still get involved in Greek life as a postgrad? Or is it undergrads only?

Every school has it's own rules, but usually there is no age restriction. And I'm going to use this as a jumping point for a positive story about a older fraternity member in the news recently, as this thread seems a little flooded with negativity recently.

There is a fraternity member at South Carolina who went straight into the Marine's after high school, served overseas and saved the life of some of his fellow soldiers by falling on a grenade and absorbing the blast. He was obviously gravely injured, so he spent a couple years in rehab. After he had recovered, he returned to his home in South Carolina and started school (as a freshman) at USC. He went through rush and joined Kappa Sigma fraternity. This summer, he was awarded the Medal of Honor, (for those who don't know, the Medal of Honor is the US' highest military honor by the president, for a military member who personal acts of courage go above and beyond the call of duty.)

I encourage you all to read his story. I've had the honor of meeting him a couple times around Columbia and he truly is an amazing person and a true hero. We are all so proud to call him a Gamecock, as well as a fellow member of greek life!

Medal of Honor: The Kyle Carpenter Story

 

[baileymt91]

thought this was a cute article written about being in a sorority! it honestly spoke lots of truth to me about joining an greek organization. --->>> Total Sorority Move | The Real Reason You Should Join A Sorority

 

[SharkDad]

people might think that im just being a hardass, but it boggles my mind that there is strong evidence to suggest that a certain group is at a greater risk of being harmed and a certain group has a tendency to view women in a negative way and have an increased tendency to engage in negative acts, and people try to downplay it simply to protect the reputation of those groups.

I think it's fair to state that these studies show data that people with the behavior you mentioned can come from Fraternities or Sororities but are far from showing evidence that groups as a whole produce that behavior.

I can make a conclusion based on your posts that you are continuing to press your opinion in order to start arguments or derail someone else's thread that people tell you they want to keep on track. I suggest you stay away from that approach and maybe take your statistical argument to another thread.

 

[njallday]

@getsum have you looked into studies on the positive impact Greek Life can have on a person's life or do you just have an agenda to try to deter individuals away from it? my only greek letters come from honor societies, as i opted not to pledge because it wasn't for me, but i have numerous friends who will tell you that their sororities changed their lives and open doors for them in the professional world all the time.

some people tend to concentrate on the bad and forget to look at the good.

 

[getsum]

If you truly think that statement is true you should take a statistics class! I actually did take a class where all we did was take studies (ones that got published over and over for their results) and find flaws in them. There wasn't a single study where we didn't find any major flaws in, and if I had the time I would go through the study you posted about and find the flaws in that one... maybe I'll find some time during the next week to finally bring this thread back to what it was.

im not sure you got what i was trying to say in what you quoted, because your post doesn't really seem to follow from that. that aside, if by flaws you accidentally meant say limitations, then yes, every study has its limitations, and thats even a sub-section in the discussion section of well written publications. every study is flawed? not so much. the teacher may have chosen known flawed studies to prove a point.

(1)I think it's fair to state that these studies show data that people with the behavior you mentioned can come from Fraternities or Sororities but are far from showing evidence that groups as a whole produce that behavior.

(2) I can make a conclusion based on your posts that you are continuing to press your opinion in order to start arguments or derail someone else's thread that people tell you they want to keep on track. I suggest you stay away from that approach and maybe take your statistical argument to another thread.

(1) you're correct. i didn't mean to say that, and i chose my words incorrectly and should have said individuals from a certain group.

(2) i have never pressed any opinions. i made an initial post quoting studies, and have only followed with responses to what other people have stated, which were mostly misleading things not backed up by anything and or were over-generalizations. of course arguments/discussions in a thread posted asking for advise on the pros and cons of something would arise. it would be absurd to think otherwise. "to greek" -> positives, "not to greek" -> negatives. that is the title of the thread. posting about a potential negative is not derailing the thread. its what the poster asked for and what others may be looking for when coming into here. somebody else posted a negative by mentioning hazing, and no one gave her flack for that. also, i never started a statistical argument, others initially questioned the validity of the statistics from the citations/studies.

@getsum have you looked into studies on the positive impact Greek Life can have on a person's life or (1) do you just have an agenda to try to deter individuals away from it? my only greek letters come from honor societies, as i opted not to pledge because it wasn't for me, but i have numerous friends who will tell you that their sororities changed their lives and open doors for them in the professional world all the time.

(2) some people tend to concentrate on the bad and forget to look at the good.

(1) it's rather presumptuous to assume that if someone posts something that makes something else appear negative, that there is some nefarious motive behind that. i tell people to watch out for bears when they go hiking in certain parts of cali during certain time of the year, because of an increased likelihood of a dangerous encounter with wildlife, but that doesn't mean that i'm trying to keep them away from hiking. also, i don't think you read the last statement of my previous post, so i'll post it again here:

and, no, the aforementioned evidence, in my first post, does not in any way shape or form negate or suggest to negate the positive experience that one can gain from participating in greek life.

(2) some of us like to have a well-rounded view of things and be informed, and i'm not the only one, so that's why i posted what i posted. plenty of people posted on the positives, someone mentioned hazings and i decided to follow up with something else which happened to be viewed as negative (it can actually be viewed as positive if it acts as a warning for those women who choose to go through with greek life). since when is informing people bad?