All-Star Unassisted Stunting Just For Coed Divisions

[imrichhowboutu]

I think the problem is very few people understand how difficult it is. A single based toss lib is probably equivalent to a 'one to dub'. For each single based toss lib in a routine you are probably sacrificing a one to double. I am not saying they are exactly equal, but that gives you an idea.

But a routine with one to doubles and assisted libs will far outscore single based toss libs and maybe some two to fulls. So because the difficulty isn't properly rewarded by the judges instead they tend to skew the percentages.

Is the large coed score sheet out for worlds? At least judging off of the International coed sheet, I would think that difficulty will be rewarded a lot better than at comps throughout the year.

 

[King]

Is the large coed score sheet out for worlds? At least judging off of the International coed sheet, I would think that difficulty will be rewarded a lot better than at comps throughout the year.

Now THAT is the kicker. At Worlds the way the scoresheet is written they will actually recognize all that.

 

[BlueCat]

Now THAT is the kicker. At Worlds the way the scoresheet is written they will actually recognize all that.

Yes, it would seem that Worlds rewards true coed stunting more than other events. (Jam Brands being close behind.) At least I HOPE that is what the Worlds scoresheets will reward . The Large Coed Worlds scoresheets are STILL not available to my knowledge.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I think the problem is very few people understand how difficult it is. A single based toss lib is probably equivalent to a 'one to dub'. For each single based toss lib in a routine you are probably sacrificing a one to double. I am not saying they are exactly equal, but that gives you an idea.

But a routine with one to doubles and assisted libs will far outscore single based toss libs and maybe some two to fulls. So because the difficulty isn't properly rewarded by the judges instead they tend to skew the percentages.

Okay, I know this was an ancient post but it references something I wonder about. What, if any scoring benefit comes from true coed stunts? Our j4 opens with 9 two man stunts. But we have three kids who can toss hands and press to extension. Is there any benefit to adding that? I'm thinking no because currently the 9 two mans full down (which requires the extra person to catch). Outside of keeping the same numbers and having those three toss hands press to a heel stretch (which is what they do now...just in two mans) with the catcher just acting as the spotter, I'm not sure there's much "scoring" benefit.

Which may be why they've not been added.

What do you think?

 

[CGAcheer]

Less an issue, but more just a different perspective. I see senior 2's doing hands extensions assisted and then level 5's do the same thing.

My personal belief is a true single based stunt (toss to the top and double down) is a lot harder than a group 1 1/2 up tick tock thingy.

We have walk in hands ext on our j2

 

[ashleymitchell5]

Our Sr Coed 4 has five guys doing unassisted toss extensions. We figured that the release move to extension would max out our stunts along with our group sequence since it is listed on the varsity scoring guidelines. We have maxed out at all our competitions except one. I was really confused because we have 4 advanced skills from every group including the partner stunt. I figured they didn't include the partner stunt as one of the 4..... but who knows?? I think if your doing a coed team.... there needs to be unassisted stunts! That's what guys are for.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I have a question for discussion.
Could the USASF stressing true coed stunting be a kind of... Maneuver to shift the male role in cheerleading away from ONLY tumbling? It was a discussion a couple years ago on the Boards that came up, how males are being deterred from the sport because the emphasis of the male role seems to be on being a good jumper and a good tumbler. The average male cheerleader seemed to be tall, lean, and... if we're being honest.. gay. I wonder if this emphasis on coed stunting is somewhat fueled by the desire to keep coed alive/making it more appealing to those outside of the sport, or to keep those guys with stunting ability but no tumbling ability from leaving.
ETA: I don't want that to come off as me saying that tall, lean, gay athletes cannot stunt.

 

[CoachTamara]

My thinking is this-it comes down to money. You can have camps to teach stunting, and you can't for tumbling. Gym owners make money off tumbling, and large corporations run camps. Take away tumbling and move the industry towards stunting and you are taking power from the gym to the big company.

There, I said it. Let that sink in for a bit...

 

[12stepCheermom]

My thinking is this-it comes down to money. You can have camps to teach stunting, and you can't for tumbling. Gym owners make money off tumbling, and large corporations run camps. Take away tumbling and move the industry towards stunting and you are taking power from the gym to the big company.

There, I said it. Let that sink in for a bit...

Honest question.... Why can't gyms do stunt camps? Are they just not well attended or is there no interest? I've never really thought about it but I guess I don't see stunt camps much.

 

[CoachTamara]

Honest question.... Why can't gyms do stunt camps? Are they just not well attended or is there no interest? I've never really thought about it but I guess I don't see stunt camps much.

You could, but you need to think about stunt groups. It's not just something you can put a sign up sheet out for and see who comes like tumbling. Tumbling classes are the bread and butter of a gym owner, but it's hard to get kids to do a stunt class because you can't predict who will be there. If you limit tumbling, who are you REALLY hurting in the long run? Gym owners.
However, if you take your entire team to camp with their stunt groups already in place, boom-money making tool for someone that is NOT the coach or owner. Usually a large group that has the resources to teach hundreds of kids in one place....

 

[C's Mom]

Kind of going back to the beginning of this thread: my personal opinion is that it needs to be called single based stunting instead of Coed. My daughter single base stunts. I have posted videos of her on here. She just started this year at age 15. She does toss extensions, libs, low to high, and has worked on full ups, all single base. I think she should receive the same recognition any boy does for doing the same thing.

 

[toss-one-arm]

My gym has always kind of stressed co ed stunting. I feel as though some guys label themselves as i'm a tumble or i'm a stunter. Ever since I started we worked co ed. I'm 18 now and on a senior team. I just sunday night hit toss full up catch left lib, tic toc to right, all unassisted. I also have a full, running and double handspring. I think it's all a mindset. You choose what you focus on.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Random observation: I watched the live feed most of the day on Sunday for NCA. I was honestly surprised at the lack of true coed stunting. I never really paid a lot of attention before, I guess I just assumed if you were a coed 5 then you were doing true coed stunts. Outside if some random kids through the day (which stood out because you didn't see it often) until you got to some of the medium 5s and the large coed division it was not nearly as standard a routine part as I thought. That surprised me.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Some people are going to disagree with me, but in a 2 1/2 minute all music routine, there is time to throw some form of toss unassisted stunt in the level 5 senior co-ed divisions (or any division for that matter, but focus seems to be there). They can happen anywhere.. if it is toss and then dismount, it's 2 8 counts, throw a transition in there, make it 3.. in any event there is time so it should be something teams are willing to do. As for rewarding girls for the same, when judging we do up the difficulty, but at the end of the day, this really is for "co-ed" and getting those points in the co-ed divisions.

Also, gyms can and do have stunt clinics/classes for Co-ed so what does that have to do with tumbling? Most gyms have a few guys who are experienced co-ed stunters that can really work with guys and girls. Boys do develop later but at least the basic technique is a good place to start, they will only be stronger.

Rant Over.

 

[f5forever]

In my opinion it should be called "unassisted stunts". And King is 100% correct when comparing a toss lib and a one to double. They are equally hard and it's insanely hard to find a person (guy or girl) who can do both (especially if you don't look at the state of Texas haha). I also feel that many gyms don't have stunting camps as a "big" money maker simply because of the market. There are many smaller gyms or schools who pay for camps and think "Why learn to stunt? That's the easy part. Tumbling takes longer to learn. Anybody can hold a flyer up". They don't realize that a good, solid stunt takes just as much technique as a good, solid tumbling pass.
I will agree that the more bases a stunt has the easier it is, but I would also say that the more bases it has, the harder it sould be. I would disagree that the move toward "unassisted" stunting is limiting tumbling. I see it as a push to make people (mainly guys, but also girls if they are rewarded for doing unassisted stunts) more all-around. I also feel that it is preparing more athletes for the college level skills. There were a few years where you had specified people on college level teams for stunting and others for tumbling; and the skill differences were huge. Stutters may have a standing tuck but could do a toss anything, while tumblers could do standing fulls and multi-full running passes, but could only do toss hands. This new system could be moving more toward ALL-AROUND athletes.
Again this is just my option.