All-Star Usasf Independence

[coachrah]

I don't think his comments were necessarily wrong though. Everything he said is pretty much true. But I hate that his company is actively working to make life difficult for A&T to become an NCAA sport.

You have no idea!

 

[ASCheerMan]

In September, I made a resolve to keep my mouth shut and not become the poster boy for defending the USASF or defending Varsity (both groups which I’m extremely proud to be associated with) and left the ASGA page because that’s all I was doing. I probably care too much what people think… we all probably do. But I do want to shed some light on a few points that I happen to disagree with. …and then I am quietly stepping away and not speaking on it again.

Claims that Varsity bought NCA because of the all star affiliation are untrue. As big as all star is in our world, on a corporate level, it’s impact on the overall business is microscopic. Contrary to what you may believe, there isn’t tons of money to be made in the competition business. ( I’m reminded of that every time I go visit my twin brother, who makes 5x as much as I do owning a series of bars in Austin). The unfortunate truth is that NCA was nearly out of resources in 2003. We were making decisions to protect the bottom line and were not in a position to make long term investments in the growth of our industry. It wasn’t until we merged with Varsity that we resumed conversations about what was best for the industry ‘long term.’ It wasn’t until the merger that we were able to step away from conversations re: the impact on bottom line. We could do what was ‘right’ and not be so tied to what ‘was budgeted.’ In some ways, Varsity rescued NCA and I am appreciative of that.

Varsity has been quite the gentleman in our industry when it comes to playing well with others. Regarding Varsity’s role in all aspects of cheerleading, Varsity has actually included its competitors in the USASF when it didn’t’ have to as well as the NACCC and the gym owners. Further, there are more than 100 different competition companies, and countless uniform companies. All gyms, all schools, all individuals are perfectly free to do business with whoever they want to, whether it’s Varsity of these other companies. It’s a free country. But many have found that Varsity not only provides great products and services, because they choose these products, but also appreciate what Varsity has done as far as athlete support, safety, and public relations on behalf of our industry. No one has ever pointed out how Varsity has utilized anything to its exclusive benefit. It has been a great steward of our sport for many years and obviously, hundreds of thousands of people agree.

In my opinion, this recent proposal to the USASF is absolutely ridiculous. What you may or may not know is this offer/proposal has never even actually been offered or proposed. Meaning: we read about it just like you did on Social Media. There has been no offer, no conversation, no phone call, no direct line of communication with the USASF. It’s coming across more like a publicity tactic than a genuine offer. That would be like me wanting to buy a house so getting on Twitter and posting to the universe: “I really like the house located 1234 Huntington Ln and will pay $200,000 for it” and then just sitting around and hope that the current home owner reads my tweet and responds. What kind of offer is that? Do I REALLY THINK the homeowner is going to stumble on my tweet and take me seriously and sell me their house?

And to post it the day before CHEERSPORT screams nothing but a strategic publicity stunt. And I guess the entire thing worked—as now everyone wants to know why USASF won’t respond. When nobody’s actually given the USASF anything to respond to.

It’s very possible I’ve misinterpreted the offer from that group. But other than buying a domain and creating a website, they haven’t appeared actually committed to making an offer. It’s unfortunate that this reflects poorly on the USASF.
I support Varsity. I support USASF. I support NACCC. And I support doing what’s right.

OK, I’m done. Rant over. Back to conversations about Twinkies and shimmies. I’m not going to re-engage in further discussion in this thread. Everyone has a right to believe what they want. But I felt like someone needed to speak on the other side and not let their Fierceboard land brew in an unbalanced discussion.

Have a great day and let’s get me to 2000 shimmies!



Sent from the relatively exclusive Fierce Board App... BOOM!

 

[RockstarCheer]

That was very well said Justin, thank you for this post

 

[TwistedLady]

GREAT! Now ASCheerMan has me thinking about twinkies. I miss twinkies.

 

[CAmamakat]

So many great points made on this thread and as a parent, I feel that USASF & Varsity have made some very positive strides. However, I do feel that there are way too many hands in the almighty cookie jar! But as I always say... My job is to be positive, support my kid and pay the bill!
The funny thing to me (or not really), we pay for this service and for our kids to participate.. which over 10 years for me has been thousands... I don't see one parent on any board.
We have chosen to be silent, choose our battles and not to cause drama
(well some of us) ....
When in all reality.. Who is standing up for us or our kids?
It seems like sometimes it's all
About the EPs, the governing body, the gym owners... when if it wasn't for our kids, there would be no such thing!
Of course, I appreciate everyone here and all the opinions and options. Moving forward in a positive productive manner is the best way to go!

 

[BlueCat]

In September, I made a resolve to keep my mouth shut and not become the poster boy for defending the USASF or defending Varsity (both groups which I’m extremely proud to be associated with) and left the ASGA page because that’s all I was doing. I probably care too much what people think… we all probably do. But I do want to shed some light on a few points that I happen to disagree with. …and then I am quietly stepping away and not speaking on it again.

Claims that Varsity bought NCA because of the all star affiliation are untrue. As big as all star is in our world, on a corporate level, it’s impact on the overall business is microscopic. Contrary to what you may believe, there isn’t tons of money to be made in the competition business. ( I’m reminded of that every time I go visit my twin brother, who makes 5x as much as I do owning a series of bars in Austin). The unfortunate truth is that NCA was nearly out of resources in 2003. We were making decisions to protect the bottom line and were not in a position to make long term investments in the growth of our industry. It wasn’t until we merged with Varsity that we resumed conversations about what was best for the industry ‘long term.’ It wasn’t until the merger that we were able to step away from conversations re: the impact on bottom line. We could do what was ‘right’ and not be so tied to what ‘was budgeted.’ In some ways, Varsity rescued NCA and I am appreciative of that.

Varsity has been quite the gentleman in our industry when it comes to playing well with others. Regarding Varsity’s role in all aspects of cheerleading, Varsity has actually included its competitors in the USASF when it didn’t’ have to as well as the NACCC and the gym owners. Further, there are more than 100 different competition companies, and countless uniform companies. All gyms, all schools, all individuals are perfectly free to do business with whoever they want to, whether it’s Varsity of these other companies. It’s a free country. But many have found that Varsity not only provides great products and services, because they choose these products, but also appreciate what Varsity has done as far as athlete support, safety, and public relations on behalf of our industry. No one has ever pointed out how Varsity has utilized anything to its exclusive benefit. It has been a great steward of our sport for many years and obviously, hundreds of thousands of people agree.

In my opinion, this recent proposal to the USASF is absolutely ridiculous. What you may or may not know is this offer/proposal has never even actually been offered or proposed. Meaning: we read about it just like you did on Social Media. There has been no offer, no conversation, no phone call, no direct line of communication with the USASF. It’s coming across more like a publicity tactic than a genuine offer. That would be like me wanting to buy a house so getting on Twitter and posting to the universe: “I really like the house located 1234 Huntington Ln and will pay $200,000 for it” and then just sitting around and hope that the current home owner reads my tweet and responds. What kind of offer is that? Do I REALLY THINK the homeowner is going to stumble on my tweet and take me seriously and sell me their house?

And to post it the day before CHEERSPORT screams nothing but a strategic publicity stunt. And I guess the entire thing worked—as now everyone wants to know why USASF won’t respond. When nobody’s actually given the USASF anything to respond to.

It’s very possible I’ve misinterpreted the offer from that group. But other than buying a domain and creating a website, they haven’t appeared actually committed to making an offer. It’s unfortunate that this reflects poorly on the USASF.
I support Varsity. I support USASF. I support NACCC. And I support doing what’s right.

OK, I’m done. Rant over. Back to conversations about Twinkies and shimmies. I’m not going to re-engage in further discussion in this thread. Everyone has a right to believe what they want. But I felt like someone needed to speak on the other side and not let their Fierceboard land brew in an unbalanced discussion.

Have a great day and let’s get me to 2000 shimmies!

Fair enough, I will withdraw the NCA purchase from my previous argument. To your point, I have not seen the big culture change in NCA that I feared when that purchase was made. I also hate disagreeing with you, because you are one of the two people under Varsity contract that I would actually trust to be lifetime chairman of the People's Republic of Cheerleading. Also, if it was you sitting in the big office in Memphis (which I have said many times is where you should be - assuming you could still run NCA Nationals), I suspect most of our fears/suspicions would go away.

I believe that you believe all of what you said, and you are no doubt in a much better position to see much of that. However, I have also talked to many people who have first-hand experience and would vehemently disagree with your "Varsity is always a gentleman and plays well with others" comment. I'm sure there are two sides to most of those stories, but their side seems extremely convincing. I don't think of the Varsity conglomerate as the evil boogeyman that some make it out to be, but portraying everything that Mr. Webb says and does as roses and rainbows flowing from the goodness of his heart isn't necessarily accurate either. (In fairness, that is probably true of any business owner, including myself.) I could expound upon some of the more egregious examples, but this isn't the proper forum for that.

I do take issue with the "we don't need to change anything because it hasn't been overly abused - yet" idea. History is filled with instances where people waited until it was far too late to change a power structure. We have a self-appointed, unelected president with what amounts to a permanent, lifetime position . . . surrounded by an unelected group of people who answer only to their own private corporations and CANNOT be removed, unless they vote themselves out. This group has the ability to (and history of) overruling/disregarding the committees and elected groups below them. That structure is pretty hard to defend, regardless of your level of trust of those individuals.

Regardless of your opinion of Varsity, it is hard to justify one company having majority control and such tremendous permanent influence over governing bodies that are supposedly independent. It is a MASSIVE conflict of interest - no matter how you look at it. Even if all of the board members under Varsity contract theoretically act independently of marching orders from Mr. Webb's office, it is simply NOT the way a governing body is supposed to be set up. (I firmly believe from first-hand experience that they DO act on their own, by the way.)

You said yourself that Varsity does not view All Star as it's core business, that is is essentially more of a side project to its main objectives. That is all the more reason for it NOT to retain it's current level of power. We want our leaders to be absolutely devoted to promoting and preserving all star in the United States - even if that would be to the detriment of other parts of the industry.

 

[12stepCheermom]

In September, I made a resolve to keep my mouth shut and not become the poster boy for defending the USASF or defending Varsity (both groups which I’m extremely proud to be associated with) and left the ASGA page because that’s all I was doing. I probably care too much what people think… we all probably do. But I do want to shed some light on a few points that I happen to disagree with. …and then I am quietly stepping away and not speaking on it again.

Claims that Varsity bought NCA because of the all star affiliation are untrue. As big as all star is in our world, on a corporate level, it’s impact on the overall business is microscopic. Contrary to what you may believe, there isn’t tons of money to be made in the competition business. ( I’m reminded of that every time I go visit my twin brother, who makes 5x as much as I do owning a series of bars in Austin). The unfortunate truth is that NCA was nearly out of resources in 2003. We were making decisions to protect the bottom line and were not in a position to make long term investments in the growth of our industry. It wasn’t until we merged with Varsity that we resumed conversations about what was best for the industry ‘long term.’ It wasn’t until the merger that we were able to step away from conversations re: the impact on bottom line. We could do what was ‘right’ and not be so tied to what ‘was budgeted.’ In some ways, Varsity rescued NCA and I am appreciative of that.

Varsity has been quite the gentleman in our industry when it comes to playing well with others. Regarding Varsity’s role in all aspects of cheerleading, Varsity has actually included its competitors in the USASF when it didn’t’ have to as well as the NACCC and the gym owners. Further, there are more than 100 different competition companies, and countless uniform companies. All gyms, all schools, all individuals are perfectly free to do business with whoever they want to, whether it’s Varsity of these other companies. It’s a free country. But many have found that Varsity not only provides great products and services, because they choose these products, but also appreciate what Varsity has done as far as athlete support, safety, and public relations on behalf of our industry. No one has ever pointed out how Varsity has utilized anything to its exclusive benefit. It has been a great steward of our sport for many years and obviously, hundreds of thousands of people agree.

In my opinion, this recent proposal to the USASF is absolutely ridiculous. What you may or may not know is this offer/proposal has never even actually been offered or proposed. Meaning: we read about it just like you did on Social Media. There has been no offer, no conversation, no phone call, no direct line of communication with the USASF. It’s coming across more like a publicity tactic than a genuine offer. That would be like me wanting to buy a house so getting on Twitter and posting to the universe: “I really like the house located 1234 Huntington Ln and will pay $200,000 for it” and then just sitting around and hope that the current home owner reads my tweet and responds. What kind of offer is that? Do I REALLY THINK the homeowner is going to stumble on my tweet and take me seriously and sell me their house?

And to post it the day before CHEERSPORT screams nothing but a strategic publicity stunt. And I guess the entire thing worked—as now everyone wants to know why USASF won’t respond. When nobody’s actually given the USASF anything to respond to.

It’s very possible I’ve misinterpreted the offer from that group. But other than buying a domain and creating a website, they haven’t appeared actually committed to making an offer. It’s unfortunate that this reflects poorly on the USASF.
I support Varsity. I support USASF. I support NACCC. And I support doing what’s right.

OK, I’m done. Rant over. Back to conversations about Twinkies and shimmies. I’m not going to re-engage in further discussion in this thread. Everyone has a right to believe what they want. But I felt like someone needed to speak on the other side and not let their Fierceboard land brew in an unbalanced discussion.

Have a great day and let’s get me to 2000 shimmies!



Sent from the relatively exclusive Fierce Board App... BOOM!

Twinkies.....RIP..... Or at least in a state of perpetual preservatives.

 

[CoachTamara]

I can't respond to everything because I'm in the middle Epcot, but l have tons to say. Justin, I think you are super amazing and wish everyone in the industry was as great at their job as you are. My tidbit for the moment is this-the things you say aren't happening are in some cases... The difficult part is that people that work for Varsity say things to coaches that are friends with other coaches, and the things are coming from a money stand point. Saying things that are blatantly saying that Varsity wants the control and power, and are taking steps to do so. We support Varsity, but it's a scary thought when I wonder where the industry will be in a few years. You can't win as an owner and coach.

Ok back to Disney fun. This was my life 10 minutes ago.

 

[12stepCheermom]

GREAT! Now ASCheerMan has me thinking about twinkies. I miss twinkies.

Seriously. Read the whole thoughtful thing and was left thinking. Gosh, i'dlike a Twinkie.

 

[CAmamakat]

I can't respond to everything because I'm in the middle Epcot, but l have tons to say. Justin, I think you are super amazing and wish everyone in the industry was as great at their job as you are. My tidbit for the moment is this-the things you say aren't happening are in some cases... The difficult part is that people that work for Varsity say things to coaches that are friends with other coaches, and the things are coming from a money stand point. Saying things that are blatantly saying that Varsity wants the control and power, and are taking steps to do so. We support Varsity, but it's a scary thought when I wonder where the industry will be in a few years. You can't win as an owner and coach.

Ok back to Disney fun. This was my life 10 minutes ago. View attachment 66

Yes! We all love Justin!! Enjoy & Good luck!!

 

[BlueCat]

Varsity has actually included its competitors in the USASF when it didn’t’ have to as well as the NACCC and the gym owners.

This didn't stand out to me the first time I read it through, but it did the last. I understand that Varsity would view anyone else being included at all in the USASF as a very generous gift it made to the industry.

Unfortunately, I also fear that this sentence speaks volumes about Varsity's perception of what the USASF is and what it should be. My hopes for a reform of USASF are a little diminished.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

In my opinion, this recent proposal to the USASF is absolutely ridiculous. What you may or may not know is this offer/proposal has never even actually been offered or proposed. Meaning: we read about it just like you did on Social Media. There has been no offer, no conversation, no phone call, no direct line of communication with the USASF. It’s coming across more like a publicity tactic than a genuine offer. That would be like me wanting to buy a house so getting on Twitter and posting to the universe: “I really like the house located 1234 Huntington Ln and will pay $200,000 for it” and then just sitting around and hope that the current home owner reads my tweet and responds. What kind of offer is that? Do I REALLY THINK the homeowner is going to stumble on my tweet and take me seriously and sell me their house?

And to post it the day before CHEERSPORT screams nothing but a strategic publicity stunt. And I guess the entire thing worked—as now everyone wants to know why USASF won’t respond. When nobody’s actually given the USASF anything to respond to.

Funny, I asked pages ago if there had even been a formal proposal and everyone seemed to gloss over that point. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[The Sixth]

I probably have an *extremely* naive view of this. But what makes the USASF the USASF from an industry controlling point of view?

I read all these calls for changes this, changes that, and that the USASF *has* to be independent to make these. Whether the claims of a loan repayment are true (or even the independence statement is true), the idea of these entities joining together got me thinking about what makes the USASF and why can't it be replaced?

Taking a step back from all the argument about why or why not things can or can't be changed, why not look to build something from the ground up backed by a democratic (loosely) approach? Is it because it would take too much time to lay the groundwork? Would it cause too many rifts with the existing setup and businesses too worried about failing if its not successful?

I don't know the profit margins, gyms, EPs, and equipment companies have. It could mean huge money losses in the near term, but it seems plausible that some of the bigger gyms and bigger EPs, and equipment suppliers could pool their resources to keep their share of the industry afloat while working together to create their own governing body.

Even if Varsity/USASF blackballed some of these entities, historically didn't all star competitions start out of actual gyms? If so it might be a short term solution to keep actual competitions viable since I'd guess it would take a bit of time for the industry to buy in. Related to that though, is it too late for some of these Varsity brands (NCA for example) to become an IEP again? Ideally you'd want to maintain the history of something like NCA, but if push came to shove, those currently running it could found a new brand if it's necessary for the bigger picture? Side note, is the profits from all star a drop in the bucket next to school cheer? Does Varsity have too much of a handhold on that side that they could never get out from under it? Thus cutting into too much business from manufacturers should they be blackballed?

Again, I have an extremely naive view of cheer from the business side. But it seems gyms have or should have the most power to effect change. They control the customers, and they also drive the success of the EPs and manufacturers.

 

[Ashley]

Side note, is the profits from all star a drop in the bucket next to school cheer? Does Varsity have too much of a handhold on that side that they could never get out from under it? Thus cutting into too much business from manufacturers should they be blackballed?

I think they really only have High School Nationals - so the competition side of it probably isn't that lucrative for Varsity at all - High School or All-Star. I would guess summer camps and uniforms are their big money makers.

 

[The Sixth]

I think they really only have High School Nationals - so the competition side of it probably isn't that lucrative for Varsity at all - High School or All-Star. I would guess summer camps and uniforms are their big money makers.

That was along the lines I was thinking. School cheer won't have as much opportunity to just say we'll go to an IEP Nationals because it doesn't exist. So in turn, if uniform producer X says we back this new governing body idea, Varsity can turn around and say all schools must buy now buy Varsity approved uniforms to compete at UCA Nationals. If that's still a huge part of business for uniform producer X, they may rethink backing the idea.