All-Star Usasf Independence

[BlueCat]

Funny, I asked pages ago if there had even been a formal proposal and everyone seemed to gloss over that point. Thanks for clarifying!

I don't personally have any idea of how/when/where/why the proposal was made other than what I saw online. However, to suggest that a "formal" proposal presented in a "proper" way would have met a different result is disingenuous at best.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

I don't personally have any idea of how/when/where/why the proposal was made other than what I saw online. However, to suggest that a "formal" proposal presented in a "proper" way would have met a different result is disingenuous at best.

I've primarily stayed out of this discussion and deferred to you, Justin and others that know more about it. However as a business owner, I feel blaming a company for not responding to a proposal that was never formally made is disingenuous and reeks of s publicity stunt. I have a lot of respect for you and think you make good points that I enjoy reading but I personally can't get past this one.

 

[yojaehs]

I am not one who believes in all of the conspiracy theories that surround the cheer world. I However I do not understand why ANY company allows things to be said or done and not do something to prevent it. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck I'm goin to believe its a duck unless I'm proven wrong. NCA buyout, NCATA, USASF all have their secrets. Don't get mad that people connect dots (right or wrong) and come to their own conclusions then try and backtrack and say the dots weren't properly aligned when it could have been prevented. I dont hate Varsity but i dont think they are blameless either. I support BlueCat and everything he has said. I'm also a huge Justin fan but I am a bigger ALL-STAR Cheer fan and College cheer fan. What's been done to NCATA is disgusting.

 

[BlueCat]

I've primarily stayed out of this discussion and deferred to you, Justin and others that know more about it. However as a business owner, I feel blaming a company for not responding to a proposal that was never formally made is disingenuous and reeks of s publicity stunt. I have a lot of respect for you and think you make good points that I enjoy reading but I personally can't get past this one.

That is a fair point. I should say that my assumption is that a private, formal proposal would have had about the same chance of being accepted, but would not have added any public awareness to the underlying issues. I also assume that is why the decision was made to go public with the proposal. I have no way of knowing either of those things for certain.

I still maintain that attacking the way the proposal was delivered should not be the crux of the debate.

 

[mstealtoyou]

Funny, I asked pages ago if there had even been a formal proposal and everyone seemed to gloss over that point. Thanks for clarifying!

It is my understanding that Jim Chadwick was presented with the formal proposal, hard copy in hand, after Cheersport.

 

[Bystander]

It is my understanding that Jim Chadwick was presented with the formal proposal, hard copy in hand, after Cheersport.

Well if thats true then they really should respond.
And sorry but the Varsity is a good guy thing reminds me of the Penn & Teller show and their thoughts on Varsity!

 

[BlueCat]

... the idea of these entities joining together got me thinking about what makes the USASF and why can't it be replaced?

Taking a step back from all the argument about why or why not things can or can't be changed, why not look to build something from the ground up backed by a democratic (loosely) approach? Is it because it would take too much time to lay the groundwork? Would it cause too many rifts with the existing setup and businesses too worried about failing if its not successful? out from under it? ....

Again, I have an extremely naive view of cheer from the business side. But it seems gyms have or should have the most power to effect change. They control the customers, and they also drive the success of the EPs and manufacturers.

Few people that I have talked to want to try to completely reinvent the wheel. Resolving some fundamental issues within the existing structure is far more attractive than trying to start something new from the ground up. The battles/hurt feelings/negativity/lost money that that would cause is a pretty high price to pay. There would be a lot of "losing" and not much "winning" in that scenario. That is not to say that replacing it with something else isn't an option, but it is much more of a last resort than a serious consideration at this point.

All of this talk about Varsity/USASF should not overlook the fact that there has been much good that has come out of the USASF. There has been a tremendous amount of progress and good work done.

I also want to reiterate that my issue is almost exclusively with how the whole thing is set up, NOT with the individuals who work/serve there. As I have said before, if I could set up "my" perfect USASF, there actually wouldn't be that many people who would change jobs.

 

[The Sixth]

I also want to reiterate that my issue is almost exclusively with how the whole thing is set up, NOT with the individuals who work/serve there. As I have said before, if I could set up "my" perfect USASF, there actually wouldn't be that many people who would change jobs.

That's an important point you bring up then. My initial question kind of took off as I was writing, but to reiterate simply what makes the USASF the USASF?

I'm well aware that non-compete clauses are not unheard in cheer at least as far as owners go, so I suspect USASF staff may have some type of clause in their work contract. But ignoring that possibility for a moment, outside of the financial obligation of the entity to Varsity; what really prevents them from giving up their positions there and creating a wholly independent organization (assuming that's what they want)? Certainly that obligation cannot be tied to an individual. So if they left one by one or by mass exodus, it would be the USASF organization problem.

Obviously financial backing is necessary as that's what currently has them in the situation they are in. But if mega gyms (with deeper pockets and larger influence than the majority of the landscape) EP's and manufacturers were to offer up the same buyout support as seed money, what's else could prevent it?

As you're saying, most don't want to re-invent the wheel. So just take what they've learned, but put it into a new company. Is there somewhere legally indoctrinated that the USASF has to be the controlling organization of all star and nobody else can be?

 

[King]

That is a fair point. I should say that my assumption is that a private, formal proposal would have had about the same chance of being accepted, but would not have added any public awareness to the underlying issues. I also assume that is why the decision was made to go public with the proposal. I have no way of knowing either of those things for certain.

I still maintain that attacking the way the proposal was delivered should not be the crux of the debate.

I do think presentation is a large chunk of anything. There are a lot of awesome valuable messages that get lost because they weren't presented well. Steak on a garbage lid (thank you Bill Cosby).

I also think it is missing a plan to get from A to B. Spell something out with a complete plan to know where they are going.

 

[newcheerdad]

I still contend the issue isn't entirely Varsity's involvement (although that's problematic) but the fact that the board membership is far too heavily made up of representatives of for-profit industry vendors and event producers. That isn't to say that those entities shouldn't have a voice, but they shouldn't be the primary set of voices.

The USASF's mission purportedly is to "provide consistent rules, strive for a safe environment for our athletes, drive competitive excellence, and promote a positive image for the sport " I am not sure how having a board has coaches and gym owners as a distinct minority serves that purpose.

 

[RockstarCheer]

Just got an email from CheeProfessional with "breaking news" that Cheer Zone, GK Elite, GTM Sportswear, Motionwear, Nfinity, Rebel Athletic and Team Cheer have united in an effort to facilitate the USASF's independence from Varsity Brands.

Link to the article is here BREAKING NEWS: Seven Industry Companies Unite to Urge and Facilitate USASF Independence | Cheer Professional

I'm sorry I'm late to the party but I rarely read the boards any more....Just too busy with my own life. I'm sitting here reading this proposal and I’d like to know this.. What has any of these companies, who are really just selling products/apparel to the industry, done for our sport? Where were they when the USASF was created to give All Star structure, safety and credibility? Why would anyone who is a gym owner, coach or athlete want to have these companies have anything to do with governance within our sport. A number of them have only been in Cheer for a couple of years. The USASF and Varsity for that matter, have demonstrated their commitment to the betterment of our sport. Heck, I'd love to know how much money in paid bids Varsity spends per year sending teams to Worlds. They have put their time, money and reputations behind building All Star, and they have done it for a lot of years. While it’s not perfect, I think the vast majority of people think that the result has been pretty darn good for everybody in the sport. Be careful what you wish for. To simply hand over the USASF to these apparel companies makes no sense to me. I'm not saying I have an answer but I'm just responding to this proposal. I respect Nifinity and GK Elite as I believe they make good products for many gyms. I mean no disrespect whatsover to any of the companies. I just don't see how turning over the USASF to these companies makes sense. I do suspect Varsity will make a response though...With Cheersport, NCA and now UCA Nationals happening all at the same time, I'd say they're pretty busy. Ok that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth..

 

[Future]

I'm sorry I'm late to the party but I rarely read the boards any more....Just too busy with my own life. I'm sitting here reading this proposal and I’d like to know this.. What has any of these companies, who are really just selling products/apparel to the industry, done for our sport? Where were they when the USASF was created to give All Star structure, safety and credibility? Why would anyone who is a gym owner, coach or athlete want to have these companies have anything to do with governance within our sport. A number of them have only been in Cheer for a couple of years. The USASF and Varsity for that matter, have demonstrated their commitment to the betterment of our sport. Heck, I'd love to know how much money in paid bids Varsity spends per year sending teams to Worlds. They have put their time, money and reputations behind building All Star, and they have done it for a lot of years. While it’s not perfect, I think the vast majority of people think that the result has been pretty darn good for everybody in the sport. Be careful what you wish for. To simply hand over the USASF to these apparel companies makes no sense to me. I'm not saying I have an answer but I'm just responding to this proposal. I respect Nifinity and GK Elite as I believe they make good products for many gyms. I mean no disrespect whatsover to any of the companies. I just don't see how turning over the USASF to these companies makes sense. I do suspect Varsity will make a response though...With Cheersport, NCA and now UCA Nationals happening all at the same time, I'd say they're pretty busy. Ok that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth..

It is not a matter of turning over USASF to other companies. All sports in the USA that are Olympic or NCAA sports are all governed by a 501c3…no exceptions. This guarantees neutral governance and protection for our child-athletes….none of which is being provided now, and Varsity has had 30 years to 'get 'er done'. Knowing that a profit company Varsity would never give up one of it's successful subsidiaries…USASF….is beyond comprehension. It will never happen. All Star cheerleading needs its own leaders that are bound by the laws of a 501c3 and will keep the operation of a proper sport model and protection of our children first and foremost. There are opportunities to get re-elected to a 'new' USASF if this is desired. Disagree…Varsity is not too busy, they are making a choice.

 

[CGAcheer]

I'm sorry I'm late to the party but I rarely read the boards any more....Just too busy with my own life. I'm sitting here reading this proposal and I’d like to know this.. What has any of these companies, who are really just selling products/apparel to the industry, done for our sport? Where were they when the USASF was created to give All Star structure, safety and credibility? Why would anyone who is a gym owner, coach or athlete want to have these companies have anything to do with governance within our sport. A number of them have only been in Cheer for a couple of years. The USASF and Varsity for that matter, have demonstrated their commitment to the betterment of our sport. Heck, I'd love to know how much money in paid bids Varsity spends per year sending teams to Worlds. They have put their time, money and reputations behind building All Star, and they have done it for a lot of years. While it’s not perfect, I think the vast majority of people think that the result has been pretty darn good for everybody in the sport. Be careful what you wish for. To simply hand over the USASF to these apparel companies makes no sense to me. I'm not saying I have an answer but I'm just responding to this proposal. I respect Nifinity and GK Elite as I believe they make good products for many gyms. I mean no disrespect whatsover to any of the companies. I just don't see how turning over the USASF to these companies makes sense. I do suspect Varsity will make a response though...With Cheersport, NCA and now UCA Nationals happening all at the same time, I'd say they're pretty busy. Ok that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth..

In my reading of the proposal, they are wanting to set the USASF free rather than take it over. The items of the proposal are things that the majority of gym owners support such as-
audit of the USASF financials
an elected, non-permanant board of directors
a new address
501 c3 non-profit status

with the things that BlueCat mentioned earlier as well as the abrupt changes that occurred without warning or a vote in the middle of a rules cycle just about a year ago now has led probably the majority of people to at least have a slight distrust in the current set up

my personal votes for the board would be
RulesGuy
ASCheerMan
BlueCat
acxjags
and CSP

throw in 2 more EPs, another vendor or 2 and a couple of smaller gyms and you'd have a well rounded board- 5 gym owners 5 ep/vendors and RulesGuy for a tie breaker

 

[BlueCat]

I'm sorry I'm late to the party but I rarely read the boards any more....Just too busy with my own life. I'm sitting here reading this proposal and I’d like to know this.. What has any of these companies, who are really just selling products/apparel to the industry, done for our sport? Where were they when the USASF was created to give All Star structure, safety and credibility? Why would anyone who is a gym owner, coach or athlete want to have these companies have anything to do with governance within our sport. A number of them have only been in Cheer for a couple of years. The USASF and Varsity for that matter, have demonstrated their commitment to the betterment of our sport. Heck, I'd love to know how much money in paid bids Varsity spends per year sending teams to Worlds. They have put their time, money and reputations behind building All Star, and they have done it for a lot of years. While it’s not perfect, I think the vast majority of people think that the result has been pretty darn good for everybody in the sport. Be careful what you wish for. To simply hand over the USASF to these apparel companies makes no sense to me. I'm not saying I have an answer but I'm just responding to this proposal. I respect Nifinity and GK Elite as I believe they make good products for many gyms. I mean no disrespect whatsover to any of the companies. I just don't see how turning over the USASF to these companies makes sense. I do suspect Varsity will make a response though...With Cheersport, NCA and now UCA Nationals happening all at the same time, I'd say they're pretty busy. Ok that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth..

So we owe it to Varsity to let them have permanent control of our industry?

The tone that I get from now from nearly every Varsity employee, including yourself, is that USASF was setup by, and therefore should be permanently owned, controlled, housed by, run by, and all credit given to Varsity. If that is truly the case, then most of us would NEVER, EVER, EVER have signed on for USASF in the first place. The assumption was that it was to be a COMPLETELY independent governing organization.

If Varsity was expecting a permanent lion's share of control and credit for/from the all star industry in return for the money it spent, then that puts the whole "gift of the USASF to all star" in an absolutely different light. It no longer looks charitable AT ALL and looks like a calculated move to establish itself in control over a growing industry. I sincerely hope that that was not the case.

 

[BlueCat]

In my reading of the proposal, they are wanting to set the USASF free rather than take it over. The items of the proposal are things that the majority of gym owners support such as-
audit of the USASF financials
an elected, non-permanant board of directors
a new address
501 c3 non-profit status

with the things that BlueCat mentioned earlier as well as the abrupt changes that occurred without warning or a vote in the middle of a rules cycle just about a year ago now has led probably the majority of people to at least have a slight distrust in the current set up

my personal votes for the board would be
RulesGuy
ASCheerMan
BlueCat
acxjags
and CSP

throw in 2 more EPs, another vendor or 2 and a couple of smaller gyms and you'd have a well rounded board- 5 gym owners 5 ep/vendors and RulesGuy for a tie breaker

I firmly believe that ALL positions of power, including board seats, should have term limits and be freely elected. No one, regardless of how popular, or how much we "owe them for their service", should be able to have any of those positions for more than 4-5 years in a row, IMO. I recently spent 5 years on the board, so I shouldn't be eligible again for several years - even IF a majority of people wanted me there. I am probably too polarizing to be a good choice anyway.