All-Star Usasf Rules Gurus - Please Read

[FierceandFearless]

S'all good..I was thinking out loud a bit myself. Although I seem to keep repeating myself lol

hahaha

 

[slapclapdip]

Please elaborate, I am having difficulty making the connection.

Trafficking is the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation.

Hope this helps.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

For the ICC/ICE issue.... If the gym closes, who would be there to contest that you aren't eligible to compete on another team?

I would assume that only your old gym can say that you are ineligible to compete. And if they don't exist, then no release is needed.

 

[SkyBlue]

What I can say for certain regarding why this thread was started and the gym it concerns, is that it is going to get real ugly, real quickly if this owner does not sign releases for all of the kids that needed to leave due to significant safety issues, all experienced level 5 coaches having to leave since you can only coach for free for so long, just to name a few things. The issues are well documented and factual and the USASF needs to step up and protect ALL of the kids involved and do what needs to be done so that these kids have the opportunity to start over at a facility that doesn't allow these types of things to go on. We aren't talking about one athlete who thinks the grass is greener somewhere else, we are talking about 90% of a team and now this owner has decided she will pick and choose who she will give a release too. She has signed a release for someone that went to gym B but won't sign releases for those that choose gym C. The topper is....this gym is in its first year and since May has lost over 35% of its athletes. You ask a question you get a lie, you confront the lie, you get a bigger lie. Many of us have had enough.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

What I can say for certain regarding why this thread was started and the gym it concerns, is that it is going to get real ugly, real quickly if this owner does not sign releases for all of the kids that needed to leave due to significant safety issues, all experienced level 5 coaches having to leave since you can only coach for free for so long, just to name a few things. The issues are well documented and factual and the USASF needs to step up and protect ALL of the kids involved and do what needs to be done so that these kids have the opportunity to start over at a facility that doesn't allow these types of things to go on. We aren't talking about one athlete who thinks the grass is greener somewhere else, we are talking about 90% of a team and now this owner has decided she will pick and choose who she will give a release too. She has signed a release for someone that went to gym B but won't sign releases for those that choose gym C. The topper is....this gym is in its first year and since May has lost over 35% of its athletes. You ask a question you get a lie, you confront the lie, you get a bigger lie. Many of us have had enough.

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly wasn't disagreeing with people leaving. Especially since I'm part of that 35%. what I was saying is that those issues were clear waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before now - I left in July! These kids wouldn't need releases if they had left sooner. And I understand trying to wait it out and see if it was going to get better. But come on. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see that it WASN'T going to get better. And everyone on level 5 should know this rule by now - it's more than a year old. So if someone has a Worlds level athlete and sees all this going on, why would they wait until now to leave? This has been going on since DAY 1.

And yes, she's wrong for signing waivers for people to go to one gym and not another. But THAT'S why you make your decision before she gets to make it for you. Like i said - this stuff didn't start in November.

 

[shadow]

What I can say for certain regarding why this thread was started and the gym it concerns, is that it is going to get real ugly, real quickly if this owner does not sign releases for all of the kids that needed to leave due to significant safety issues, all experienced level 5 coaches having to leave since you can only coach for free for so long, just to name a few things. The issues are well documented and factual and the USASF needs to step up and protect ALL of the kids involved and do what needs to be done so that these kids have the opportunity to start over at a facility that doesn't allow these types of things to go on. We aren't talking about one athlete who thinks the grass is greener somewhere else, we are talking about 90% of a team and now this owner has decided she will pick and choose who she will give a release too. She has signed a release for someone that went to gym B but won't sign releases for those that choose gym C. The topper is....this gym is in its first year and since May has lost over 35% of its athletes. You ask a question you get a lie, you confront the lie, you get a bigger lie. Many of us have had enough.

kingston your thoughts on situations like this please

 

[wcdad]

I can sympathize with the dilemma that is going on here. Yes the owner should sign and release the athletes so they can move on. I also understand that this is not an issue of the grass is always greener. But the next question that needs to be asked is what is going to happen to the kids that are already on gym B. The ones that have been signed up at gym B from May. The ones that have been with gym B for several years. The ones that started at the start of the year with gym B at tryouts. The ones that are on the level 5 team that the kids from gym A are going to go on to. What do you think should happen to those kids when they get replaced because the Suzie’s from gym A come to gym B and take their spots because they have that double or the skill that the kid from gym B is working on very hard but has not quite gotten it?

This is an ugly situation all around. But I have to say it is not fair for the kids in Gym B as well if they get displaced.

This rule is a needed rule for many reasons. It may not be perfect but it is in place for many reasons. Dr Spock sums this rule up best, “the needs of the many far out way the needs of the few.”

Do your homework and be prepared to move by November 1st from this point on. This rule should not be such an issue this year as it is not new and people discussed this to death last year. And remember it only deals with level 5 Worlds Cheerleaders.

Famous Mom, if I am reading your post correct this is a first year team and program? Unfortunately this is a risk that comes with a new un-established program. Buyers beware of start up teams and programs. In the first 3 years of my CP cheer experience she was part of 2 start ups. All got ugly in there own right. It was after I did my homework I decided it was worth the 1.5hr drive to the program she spent the next 13 years in.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly wasn't disagreeing with people leaving. Especially since I'm part of that 35%. what I was saying is that those issues were clear waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before now - I left in July! These kids wouldn't need releases if they had left sooner. And I understand trying to wait it out and see if it was going to get better. But come on. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see that it WASN'T going to get better. And everyone on level 5 should know this rule by now - it's more than a year old. So if someone has a Worlds level athlete and sees all this going on, why would they wait until now to leave? This has been going on since DAY 1.

And yes, she's wrong for signing waivers for people to go to one gym and not another. But THAT'S why you make your decision before she gets to make it for you. Like i said - this stuff didn't start in November.

kingston your thoughts on situations like this please

I'm sure he'll stick to his same stance on this rule that he always has. Which in this particular case is my stance as well (rare I know): Shoulda left sooner. These issues were NOT NEW. This didn't start in November. If it had that would be different (and very odd) but it didn't.

I can sympathize with the dilemma that is going on here. Yes the owner should sign and release the athletes so they can move on. I also understand that this is not an issue of the grass is always greener. But the next question that needs to be asked is what is going to happen to the kids that are already on gym B. The ones that have been signed up at gym B from May. The ones that have been with gym B for several years. The ones that started at the start of the year with gym B at tryouts. The ones that are on the level 5 team that the kids from gym A are going to go on to. What do you think should happen to those kids when they get replaced because the Suzie’s from gym A come to gym B and take their spots because they have that double or the skill that the kid from gym B is working on very hard but has not quite gotten it?

This is an ugly situation all around. But I have to say it is not fair for the kids in Gym B as well if they get displaced.

The gym they have gone to did not have any level 5 team. So they are adding 2 new teams. (Basically the same teams as the old gym, just new uniforms0.

 

[King]

kingston your thoughts on situations like this please

I'm sure he'll stick to his same stance on this rule that he always has. Which in this particular case is my stance as well (rare I know): Shoulda left sooner. These issues were NOT NEW. This didn't start in November. If it had that would be different (and very odd) but it didn't.





The gym they have gone to did not have any level 5 team. So they are adding 2 new teams. (Basically the same teams as the old gym, just new uniforms0.

In this situation why did they all wait around? Why didn't they leave sooner? And now that it is a real situation I think Just-A-Mom sees when you have to apply to the situation it looks like a lot of people made bad choices. I think the rule stands. It doesn't sound like it was an out of the blue thing?

 

[NEliteSteven]

We all know who you're talking about- spill the details. haha

 

[SkyBlue]

In this situation why did they all wait around? Why didn't they leave sooner? And now that it is a real situation I think Just-A-Mom sees when you have to apply to the situation it looks like a lot of people made bad choices. I think the rule stands. It doesn't sound like it was an out of the blue thing?

Why did we wait around....well we aren't gym hoppers and the kids wanted to stick by their coaches who were attempting to make good on an ugly situation. We had paid thousands of dollars already as many paid in full. I am not ready yet to go out on an all out blitz of what these people have done publicly. Contrary to what one person says, it wasn't so cut and dried as to what this owner was up to in July.

Is it the parents responsibility to run background checks? I am positive most parents wouldnt know how to go out and find public records. This is where the USASF needs to step in and run mandatory backgrounds on gym owners before allowing them to become members.

For the question on what happens to kids at gym B where kids from gym A are coming in....as far as i know only 2 possibly 3 kids went there and they are replacing athletes who quit that gym, so no worries someone will get bumped. As for gym C, there was no level 5 team at that facility.

At this point in time, if we have not received releases from this gym owner by end of Jan at the latest, I am readying my list of contacts in the media to go public with this.

 

[debbie]

Why did we wait around....well we aren't gym hoppers and the kids wanted to stick by their coaches who were attempting to make good on an ugly situation. We had paid thousands of dollars already as many paid in full. I am not ready yet to go out on an all out blitz of what these people have done publicly. Contrary to what one person says, it wasn't so cut and dried as to what this owner was up to in July.

Is it the parents responsibility to run background checks? I am positive most parents wouldnt know how to go out and find public records. This is where the USASF needs to step in and run mandatory backgrounds on gym owners before allowing them to become members.

For the question on what happens to kids at gym B where kids from gym A are coming in....as far as i know only 2 possibly 3 kids went there and they are replacing athletes who quit that gym, so no worries someone will get bumped. As for gym C, there was no level 5 team at that facility.

At this point in time, if we have not received releases from this gym owner by end of Jan at the latest, I am readying my list of contacts in the media to go public with this.

If you are forced to go public I wish you the best of luck. Maybe then the usasf will get rid of this rule.

 

[King]

Why did we wait around....well we aren't gym hoppers and the kids wanted to stick by their coaches who were attempting to make good on an ugly situation. We had paid thousands of dollars already as many paid in full. I am not ready yet to go out on an all out blitz of what these people have done publicly. Contrary to what one person says, it wasn't so cut and dried as to what this owner was up to in July.

Is it the parents responsibility to run background checks? I am positive most parents wouldnt know how to go out and find public records. This is where the USASF needs to step in and run mandatory backgrounds on gym owners before allowing them to become members.

For the question on what happens to kids at gym B where kids from gym A are coming in....as far as i know only 2 possibly 3 kids went there and they are replacing athletes who quit that gym, so no worries someone will get bumped. As for gym C, there was no level 5 team at that facility.

At this point in time, if we have not received releases from this gym owner by end of Jan at the latest, I am readying my list of contacts in the media to go public with this.

Going to the media is a double edged sword. If there is proof of said activities (and I have no idea what they are) people can go to jail if the media cares. If there is no proof you are liable for slander if it hurts their business.

 

[SkyBlue]

Going to the media is a double edged sword. If there is proof of said activities (and I have no idea what they are) people can go to jail if the media cares. If there is no proof you are liable for slander if it hurts their business.

There is more than enough proof and if what they are doing is illegal, they should have thought of that before doing it. I have NO worries on slander or defamation. The owner, however, should seriously worry about what she is spreading around about coaches and parents in an attempt to keep people in that gym.

Debbie - as I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not against the release, however, the release was poorly thought out before being executed and only benefits the gym owner, without thought that there are gym owners who could be highly unethical and aren't in the business for the athletes. The job of the USASF should be to protect the athletes, after all isn't that what this sport is supposed to be about....the kids?

 

[King]

There is more than enough proof and if what they are doing is illegal, they should have thought of that before doing it. I have NO worries on slander or defamation. The owner, however, should seriously worry about what she is spreading around about coaches and parents in an attempt to keep people in that gym.

Debbie - as I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not against the release, however, the release was poorly thought out before being executed and only benefits the gym owner, without thought that there are gym owners who could be highly unethical and aren't in the business for the athletes. The job of the USASF should be to protect the athletes, after all isn't that what this sport is supposed to be about....the kids?

If you truly know something is illegal going on with kids why are you not reporting it to the police?