All-Star What Is This Rule Proposal About The Usasf Age Change

[Boo21]

I think the age limit for worlds teams should be raised. I would like to see the amazing jr teams again and not the rush to get on a worlds team the second you are "age eligible". I am wondering if other gyms have those 12/13 year olds that are basically dumped off at the gym as a babysitting service. I have seen the same kids year after year dropped off several hours before practice (with no private going on) messing around and being distractive to teams practicing.

 

[mollymags]

I actually prefer the dance age brackets because the difference between the top ages for each division is 3 years. In cheer, everything is 3 years, except for the 4 year gap between the top age for juniors and seniors.

Things I've thought of that I don't think I'd mind seeing, but I don't think will ever happen:

-Change the top ages for cheer to match the top ages for dance (6 for tiny, 9 for mini, 12 for youth, 15 for junior, 18 for senior), while raising the bottom age for seniors (and maybe add a bottom age to juniors as well). I'm wondering if adding that extra year of eligibility to each division would soften the blow of a higher bottom age for seniors.

-Like I mentioned in the post above... I'd really like to see a bottom age on Juniors. Bless any coach trying to coach a team with both a 6 year old and a 14 year old on it. Some days the difference in how I have to coach a 7 year old vs a 10 year old makes me want to pull my hair out. I've worked with younger teams for several years and I absolutely believe that the little ones push themselves and work very hard, but there's a huge difference in a 6 year old busting her butt vs a 14 year old busting her butt. They generally learn at very different paces. You can't always explain things to both of those age groups in the same way. "Nice" coaches and "strict" coaches still have to be very different in those styles depending on age. You either need to slow down and work at the pace of the younger kids, or work at the pace of the older kids and hope that stuff will work out with the younger ones... and more often than not, I see the kids who look significantly younger than the rest of their team tucked in the back because they can't keep up. It's doing a disservice to the kids to put them on the same team.

-If a division 1 and 2 split actually occurs someday (and is based only on gym size), maybe remove the bottom age limit from D2 gyms (smaller programs) and leave it on D1. It seems that the argument against raising the bottom age for seniors is always that it's going to hurt smaller programs- and I'm sure it does. If you only have 20 kids in your gym, you're probably only going to be able to make one team, and having to turn a few kids away because they're too old or too young has to sting at a gym that size. Larger programs should be able to build age appropriate teams because they have a larger pool to build from.

 

[CheerBank]

I think the age limit for worlds teams should be raised. I would like to see the amazing jr teams again and not the rush to get on a worlds team the second you are "age eligible". I am wondering if other gyms have those 12/13 year olds that are basically dumped off at the gym as a babysitting service. I have seen the same kids year after year dropped off several hours before practice (with no private going on) messing around and being distractive to teams practicing.

While I am not disagreeing with you on either of your points, I am trying to find the connection between the two and am having a hard time doing so. Could you explain how you feel raising the bottom age for Worlds teams would reduce the number of gym rats (as we affectionately call them around here)? Thanks.

 

[Boo21]

Sorry I shouldn't have connected my points
Basically most junior teams have practice at earlier times so the "gym rats" (I love this term by the way) would have less available time to be ditched at the gym

 

[cxcheermom]

TE="Kris, post

If they raise the required ages to be on teams it hurts small gyms. For example say you are 10 years old and have very strong level 4 skills. Then say they raise the age to be on a senior team to 11. Well, some small gyms may only be able to field a youth 1, a junior 2, and a senior 4. So, parents have a choice do I pay for my kids to be on a level 2 at our small gym or do I switch to a large gym so my CP can be on a team that matches her skill set. A true large gym can easily field a Junior 4 team.

This
554, member: 10405"]If they raise the required ages to be on teams it hurts small gyms. For example say you are 10 years old and have very strong level 4 skills. Then say they raise the age to be on a senior team to 11. Well, some small gyms may only be able to field a youth 1, a junior 2, and a senior 4. So, parents have a choice do I pay for my kids to be on a level 2 at our small gym or do I switch to a large gym so my CP can be on a team that matches her skill set. A true large gym can easily field a Junior 4 team.[/QUOTE]
This would be our snall

 

[cxcheermom]

TE="Kris, post

If they raise the required ages to be on teams it hurts small gyms. For example say you are 10 years old and have very strong level 4 skills. Then say they raise the age to be on a senior team to 11. Well, some small gyms may only be able to field a youth 1, a junior 2, and a senior 4. So, parents have a choice do I pay for my kids to be on a level 2 at our small gym or do I switch to a large gym so my CP can be on a team that matches her skill set. A true large gym can easily field a Junior 4 team.

This
554, member: 10405"]If they raise the required ages to be on teams it hurts small gyms. For example say you are 10 years old and have very strong level 4 skills. Then say they raise the age to be on a senior team to 11. Well, some small gyms may only be able to field a youth 1, a junior 2, and a senior 4. So, parents have a choice do I pay for my kids to be on a level 2 at our small gym or do I switch to a large gym so my CP can be on a team that matches her skill set. A true large gym can easily field a Junior 4 team.[/QUOTE]
This describes our gym.... my senior 4 would go down to a junior 2. There's just not enough girls to form a new team when your a very small gym. I know my daughter would not progress on a level 2 made up of mostly new girls. While I understand why the proposed changes our gym is small and rated PG for all teams so I don't mind my 10 year old being with them. They've been great mentors to her and she
has learned a lot from them. Now at a bigger gym I'm not sure I'd
like her around the seniors it would depend on the atmosphere of that team but as a parent I would definitely take that into consideration before allowing her on that team just as we did this year when she made senior 4. We discussed her maturity level and skill level before we allowed her to be on that team.

 

[MamaMya04]

All this talk about age and skills keeps bringing me back to other sports and how the focus is on age brackets when it comes to setting up team. Cheer is so different that it's hard to say whether age or skill should take precedent. I personally am biased about super young tiny fliers on higher level teams mainly because of how it's affected my own CP and her perception of her own body image. It's my opinion that having older kids basing these lightweight fliers is not doing them any favors if they're planning on cheering in college. I prefer for my CP to be on a team with children her own age. Thankfully, we're at a gym where my preference is possible. However, I understand how small gyms could be adversely affected and I'm subsequently glad that I don't make any of the decisions

 

[stingrayallstarsbri]

I agree we should raise the minimum age of senior to high school students. I think 12-14 year olds are mostly on the same maturity level (based off the 12-14 year olds I know) as you said cursing and stuff with the little kids around.
On the other side, there are also now and then very talented younger kids, like Laney Madison who was on Cali Coed. I think she was great on the worlds team, despite being 12(?)

 

[yourfavoritebackspot]

I mean at this rate the big gyms are buying the small gyms anyway.

I'm sorry but I do not think a 10 year old should be on a senior age team regardless of skill level.

I believe it should be 14+

I agree. I turn 18 in 2 weeks. I graduated high school this past June. Next year I can still be on a senior team because I turn 19 early Sept. (not sure I will) but, even now the conversations and social experiences the older girls talk about even if quietly amoung ourselves are often over heard by the younger ones. I once had a 11 yr old ask me what rape was, because of something she over heard someone bring up, it was awkward, luckily coaches called everyone to go tumble and I escaped the question told my mom which she then mentioned it to the young girls mom to address. Yes it would hurt small gyms but it may also give them some good Junior teams. It may also help some gyms trying to push some of these younger athletes to higher levels with out skipping levels inbetween , or prevent these younger kids with poor body control from injury just because they need x amount to fill the sr 4/5 team they "want" to have and probably shouldnt have.

 

[gofriars610]

I think 14+ is too old. Think of the drop-off of girls quitting cheer once high school gets more challenging...even on very high-profile teams. I know I personally cut back on my competitive dance schedule once junior year hit and I was just too busy.

 

[ARajamin]

Oh that really sucks. I hope they do not do this. Small gyms are hard enough to keep up and running. USASF does not think enough about actual business and how this will effect athletics which is why I don't like the federation. But that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way but it sucks.

It could come down to USASF competitions losing money too... We have this problem at our gym where we have an entire team ages 10 and up and a super small (read:trio) youth team that consists of three 5 yr olds. I have one girl on our team who is 9 and will not turn 10 until 10 days after the deadline. Because this girl is extremely talented we've decided not to move her down to the youth team (which would also break up our trio) and we simply don't compete at USASF events. They've lost out on comp fees for a trio, senior team, 3 stunt teams, and solos... I much prefer competitions that take the average age of the team. But that's just me.

 

[shawtyyBHADDx3]

I agree. I turn 18 in 2 weeks. I graduated high school this past June. Next year I can still be on a senior team because I turn 19 early Sept. (not sure I will) but, even now the conversations and social experiences the older girls talk about even if quietly amoung ourselves are often over heard by the younger ones. I once had a 11 yr old ask me what rape was, because of something she over heard someone bring up, it was awkward, luckily coaches called everyone to go tumble and I escaped the question told my mom which she then mentioned it to the young girls mom to address. Yes it would hurt small gyms but it may also give them some good Junior teams. It may also help some gyms trying to push some of these younger athletes to higher levels with out skipping levels inbetween , or prevent these younger kids with poor body control from injury just because they need x amount to fill the sr 4/5 team they "want" to have and probably shouldnt have.

But it's not hurting the junior aged kids, it's hurting the senior aged kids that won't have a spot because there's not enough of them for a team

 

[CGAcheer]

But it's not hurting the junior aged kids, it's hurting the senior aged kids that won't have a spot because there's not enough of them for a team

this is exactly the issue that is the real problem, but is also the one that is rarely brought up. All the focus is on young flyers and innocent ears and potty mouth high schoolers. The real safety issue is forcing 15+ year olds to levels that they are nowhere near ready for because thats the only Senior team available. So they struggle and either quit or get hurt or just continue struggling all year because they were set up to fail

 

[AndrewSky]

A lot of gyms, dependent on where they are in the country, lose quite a bit of money when kids start high school. If you make the age higher, hypothetically you could be opening the door for even more JankTastic skills to be put on the floor for a level 4 girl being pulled up to replace the valuable lost athlete.

Correct coaching wins the argument (to me every time). If a 12 year old IS ready, you'll know. If a 12 year old isn't, you'll know.

I also stand by the idea of having a minimum score to get bids but for all divisions. To me, it's a little more of "the best of the best" plus it gives our younger athletes the exposure to compete at worlds already - from an even younger age of senior eligibility. I understand this number would not be a large portion of athletes, but still.

 

[yourfavoritebackspot]

Just a thought but couldnt this rushing 10/12 yr olds on senior teams be address if there was a rule into place like you must compete 1 season on levels 3 and one season lvl4 before a coach can move an athlete to a level 4/5 team. If there was some type of athlete registry required, that kept track maybe coaches /athletes wouldnt be able to place "Sally" on "humble 5" just because they need a small flyer. I dont see how these young girls age 10/12 who go from youth/ jr 2 /3 can have as much body control on a level 5 skilled team as a 16 yr old who has been through propper progression going through levels 2, 3 & 4. Its pretty scary when you see a young flyer being whipped through pyramids with no body controll. I dont even want to start on janky tumbling. (which Ive seen on all ages) if its not comp ready and isnt technically right, dont put that athlete at risk just to get another full on the team.