All-Star Your Definition Of A World's Caliber Team

[cheeromgbre]

I can't bold, underline, enlarge this statement enough.

I feel very strongly about teams competing towards the end of the season and "defaulting" into an at-large bid. I don't care how hard the team has worked the last 3 weeks to get the routine together and they're newly formed, or whatever the circumstance may be- as it has been mentioned before, Worlds is THE BEST OF THE BEST. I firmly think there should be a minimum score needed to be reached, or you must placed top 3 or something. I'm nervous about it turning into just another national competition where anybody can go. It's prestigious for a reason. It's not about "going for experience". You go because you are the best of the best, not to hang out in Disney with other cheerleaders and your friends.

i could not agree more.
Shimmy x 100.

 

[Num1Stunta]

If you can throw and hit consistant level 5/6 skills. Your routine may not have eight tick tocks and squad standing fulls, but if you do well on the difficulty grid and can hit it consistently, then right on, bro. People are saying Worlds is for the "elite", but who gets the say on what the definition of "elite" is? Who decides which team is considered "elite" and who is not? It's opinion. I like how the system works now. You never know...that team who "didn't deserve the bid" may pull something sick out of their butt for Worlds and surprise you all. (;

This is somewhat along the lines of what I was going to post... I think as long as you're showing majority level 5 skills throughout, and you can hit with relatively minor issues, then it's fine to go to worlds under the impression that you'll probably not break into the top 5 or 10. BUT, I don't think the current system is "working," just in the sense that it's way too easy for teams who can't hit level 5 tricks to make it to worlds. It IS supposed to be the "best" that the cheer world has to offer. I think if we had a system in place where there was a minimum score or a minimum skill requirement, that may be a bit better. If you happen to be at a bid competition and none of the teams meet the requirements, then the bids get recycled to another company or something along those lines. There could be some kind of wild card competition at the end of the season where all the remaining bids are up for grabs. Personally, I think there are WAY too many at-large bids out there. JMO

 

[ilikebigbows]

You're contradicting yourself. The scoring grid *should* define what is elite and what is not. So it's NOT opinion. The problem right now, is it's based on several different ones. The expectation is that the USASF, and the voting membership decides how to standardize the process, or "definition of elite". Which really comes down to two things, a universal scoring sheet, and a cutoff score. So maybe there is a TAD bit of opinion with the latter. But are we really going to argue if scoring 80 on a scale of 100 is considered elite?

I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself well enough. But I understand what you're saying and you're very correct. I really don't know how to explain what I was intending to say right now, so I won't try to. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I've already stated scheduling. Keep in mind this is the pinnacle of cheer. How would you like to have to be up at 5:30am for warm-ups, be expected to sit around all day, and be prepared to give your very best again 12 hours later? 3 hours...4 hours...maybe...but over half a day? And I didn't even mention the fallout from the A/B group prelim scoring. Cut down on the number of teams that attend, and it alleviates both of those situations.

If ppl want to experience Worlds for the fun of it, just go as a spectator. I think you can still get about 90% of the experience without competing.

Is the only way to fix the scheduling less bids? I don't know, maybe but it doesn't help grow the sport. Actually yes we will be one of those teams up early and waiting, had we gotten a paid bid that wouldn't be the case. That would solve that issue. As far as the A/B that was only last year not an issue this year and no matter how they do it, there will always be some sort of fall out on it's handled. I would never fly across the country to see teams that most likely I would've never heard of had it not been for going to Worlds. We are very fortunate to have many amazing teams in Calif. I would never assume I know what works in your area, but in my area the top three are just about always the same top 3, so bids would be done going out after the 1st comp if it was by placement. There are many teams still left with no bids where I am. I also think it's not up to me to decide who's World's Caliber, many bids are at the descretion of the EP.

 

[BubbleToes]

I firmly believe if it wasn't for all these at-large bids, you wouldn't see many paids. At-large is the bread and butter of Worlds.

 

[The Sixth]

Is the only way to fix the scheduling less bids? I don't know, maybe but it doesn't help grow the sport. Actually yes we will be one of those teams up early and waiting, had we gotten a paid bid that wouldn't be the case. That would solve that issue. As far as the A/B that was only last year not an issue this year and no matter how they do it, there will always be some sort of fall out on it's handled. I would never fly across the country to see teams that most likely I would've never heard of had it not been for going to Worlds. We are very fortunate to have many amazing teams in Calif. I would never assume I know what works in your area, but in my area the top three are just about always the same top 3, so bids would be done going out after the 1st comp if it was by placement. There are many teams still left with no bids where I am. I also think it's not up to me to decide who's World's Caliber, many bids are at the descretion of the EP.

It's either control the process to reduce bids, or add more days, or more venues. Neither of the last two I think are viable at all. I'm not quite sure what affect it has to growing or not growing the sport. If we were that concerned about Worlds growing the sport, why get rid of the junior division? Why not make it all levels? It's not like nationals such as NCA and Cheersport cease to exist.

Paid bid has nothing to do with getting up early. The example I was referring to was IOC last year. I'm pretty sure teams like SOT, CA, and Top Gun had paid bids. My point with the A/B splitting, is it wouldn't be an issue if you weren't trying to manage 60 teams in a single division. I can't recall if it became official, but I know there was talk about introducing the same type of prelim qualifying for club divisions this year. At what point does that stop? I see no point in having to structure things differently and have different expectations for different divisions.

By saying that many teams in your area are left without bids, then under the current system they are not Worlds caliber, and don't have a bid for a reason. If you truly believe they are, and its a matter of there not being enough bids, than you are basically agreeing, the current system is flawed, and a more standardized guideline could help those teams. Rather than see a team from across the country, get a bid by placing 3rd, from an EP that doesn't even cater to your area; your area teams who are better quality on paper, then have a better chance at that bid.

 

[Coach Troy]

Take the Olympics as an example, those countries (9 times out of 10) are sending their best athletes in order to take a gold medal. You don't see the USA gymnastics team or swim team taking an athlete that doesn't really have the skill but wants the experience. If people want cheer to one day be respected like the Olympics then it needs to really be the best of the best going to worlds.[/quote]

I don't think this a fair comparison.... I think the NCAA tournament is a better example
look at how many mid-majors are in the sweet sixteen. Just because you don't win a paid bid does not mean that you are not able to compete with the best of the best... I have gone to worlds since 05' on an at large bid. The first year yes it was a learning experience but we have never regretted attending and it has only served to make our program better.

Are there a lot of at-large bids...yes...do some paid bid winners benefit from not competing against a strong field of teams... YES... do some at-large bids go to low placing teams late in the season.. yes.. but everyone that works hard has the right to be represented if they are given the opportunity.

I am happy to compete three times at worlds and I can tell you that I believe there will be 2 or 3 at-large teams in the top 10 and several paid bid winners that will be spectators on Sunday.

 

[PghxCheer2]

I think if you score more than 80% of the possible points at worlds on Day 1, then you deserve to be there. Unfortunately, scores aren't always made public, so in the larger divisions I usually just dub that anyone who is in the top 80ish percent of their division as Worlds Caliber. There are a couple of exceptions. Give or take a few in a division like small limited and international coed.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

All year long everyone complains about not having enough teams in each division at competitions..."How are you National Champion when you only competed against one other team from your state?" And now there are too many teams?

And I get what everyone is saying about best of the best. But how about look at it like this? If there are that many teams going, doesn't that just make that statement more true? Ok, first you have to get the bid. I know everyone on here is claiming all these teams are getting bids at the end of the year that are in 11th place etc. I promise--that really isn't happening as often as you guys are making it sound. Trust me--there are plenty of teams not getting bids that are Level 5. Just sitting here on my sofa at 3:30 AM I can personally name off 5 that I know of from around here that don't have one--and don't stand a snowball's chance in #e!! of getting one. So I'm sure there are plenty around the country.

So...like I said, first you have to get a bid. Then you have to actually go. Then you have to make it through Day 1. No easy feat when there are that many teams there. Then you have to make it through Day 2--against the rest of the awesome teams that made it through Day 1. If you win after all that, then I think you truly can say you're the best of the best.

If you truly are the best of the best...competing early in the morning and again late at night shouldn't be that big a deal. And having that many teams there just solidifies the fact that you are the best.

Because really, I remember in December there were an awful lot of people on here fussing about a certain team from here getting a paid bid. That was pretty early in the season, and not a team that was "thrown together". And they were up against some pretty tough competition. Still everyone was whining and complaining that they didn't deserve a bid, blah blah blah. Well, maybe they were the best that day, maybe they weren't (I don't know, I wasn't there...I was on here). But even then everyone was saying they didn't deserve to go. So enough about these last minute teams...how do you justify saying that a team that earned a paid bid in the beginning of DECEMBER doesn't deserve to go??? There are some pretty big name gyms sliding in with bids at the last minute--not just these little thrown together ones. Because they got beat early in the season by the little guy they didn't even see coming.

So I genuinely just don't believe some of you guys. Sorry, I think it has nothing to do with last minute teams. I think you just want to see only the big dogs that you love and think "deserve" to go. And just don't want to actually say on here that you don't think XYZ Allstars from Podunk, SD should get to go because you've never heard of them.

And lastly, yes--I agree you should have to beat a minimum score to get a bid. But I don't think that would make people stop saying teams don't deserve to go--they'd just say they didn't deserve that score. And that it's rigged. As to why EPs don't use USASF score sheet to hand out bids? Because it's their money. They can use whatever method they want to determine who they want to give it to. If the USASF wants to start paying for the paid bids, they can choose the scoresheet that's used. But until then, it's like a sponsorship--and sponsors can choose the teams they sponsor however they want.


<climbs carefully down from soapbox>

 

[TheRealAlishaD]

My goodness, some of you guys are BRUTAL! While I understand the essence and the honor that Worlds is supposed to stand for, if the bids are being offered how can you bash the team that got the bid? Cheer ABC may not throw 20 standing fulls, they may just have 1, they may not have ball up 360's, they may just have switch ups and full ups but does that mean they don't deserve to compete at Worlds? My coaches would tell us all the time, CLEAN beats difficulty any day. Just because a team doesn't throw/attempt the same caliber stunts as a SoT, TG, WC, etc, doesn't mean they should pack up their bags and just attend US Finals (no offense to US Finals I LOVE that comp). That team worked hard, hit what was incorporated into THEIR routine and earned a bid, be it a paid bid, or at-large, it's still a bid. Perhaps there shouldn't be so many bids given out, then maybe people wouldn't feel like the pedigree of the competition has gone downhill, but you shouldn't tell a team they are not Worlds caliber......these are still children, as talented or popular as they may be. I just don't comprehend how you can have the moxie to determine who should and should not attend Worlds. If there is a team that you don't feel is up to snuff with YOUR Worlds' standards, update your Facebook status while they perform, send a twitter update, tie your shoe for 2:30, but do something other than bad mouthing a team, if they are there it's because they've EARNED their chance to be there. And isn't that what Prelims are for.....to weed out the strong for Day 2. Lighten up and just enjoy the show. lol

 

[Mom Jeans]

It's either control the process to reduce bids, or add more days, or more venues. Neither of the last two I think are viable at all. I'm not quite sure what affect it has to growing or not growing the sport. If we were that concerned about Worlds growing the sport, why get rid of the junior division? Why not make it all levels? It's not like nationals such as NCA and Cheersport cease to exist.

"........."
By saying that many teams in your area are left without bids, then under the current system they are not Worlds caliber, and don't have a bid for a reason............

I'm going to stop arguing with you, because no matter what you say, I don't agree with you. Earlier you said that if I just went to Worlds to watch you are Sure that I would fulfill my 90% of my Worlds Experience how are you sure of that? When I'm talking about my experience, I think I know better than you what's important for my experience

Also I never said the teams that don't have bids are Worlds Caliber, all I'm saying that there's not this enormous trickling down that happens where teams just show up and get a bid, like many people have stated. Maybe in some areas, just not in mine. I know because I live here and have seen what happens. I don't know what happens elsewhere.

I also never said the current system is not flawed, there are many areas of cheer that can be improved. I'm just trying to state that for every person who thinks its ridiculous that someone would want to go just for the experience theres someone who doesn't agree and feels they would go. SOT, CA, and Top Gun still came out on top so I feel safe in saying the tops teams stay at the top even if they do have to wait around. I see CA at every comp , I amazed everytime and no matter how long their wait was, they were remarkable as always.

I hope your time at Worlds isn't as awful as you expect and have a great time. I know I will have a great time watching my daughter perform, no matter what happens, even as I try to wake her up at as early as 3am our time.

 

[wcssfan]

Does anybody remember when China first took teams to worlds? For want of a nicer phrase they didn't really have much going for them. HOWEVER, the next year they came back and they were unrecognisably better because they had obviously taken so much from the previous year and learned from it! My point is, worlds can teach so many people so much about our sport and everyone who has earned a bid should go because it's what spurs people on to be the best they can be.

 

[ztaprincess]

If they would just judge the teams going for bids at competitions on the scoresheet being used for their division at worlds then it would prove that teams are worlds caliber.

I do not hate at-large bids, i think that a lot of teams with them deserve to be at worlds, but the number of at large bids that just get tossed out is the problem. Take down the number handed out a bid and you will see a lot more quality teams attending worlds. I do however love that they changed so that at-larges no longer get to be passed down if your team upgrades their bid.

 

[blunchin]

i'm really surprised at some of the responses in this thread. the boards seems to be very about the underdog or smaller gym but now all of a sudden they don't belong. seems a little hypocritical and snotty to me. i'd rather see the teams go on at-larges than attempting to do this d1, d2 nonsense. at least they're trying to compete with the heavy hitters.

 

[CDRCoach17]

The answer is clear cut: money. Cheer gyms are a great thing for kids. I think it is a great sport that can help children mentally and physically. Cheer gyms are also created to make money. I will ask a few more questions.
1. Besides NCA, Cheersport, and Jamfest. (that is not a diss on any other company, but it seems those nationals bring in the huge numbers) would the smaller companies exist without offering bids? Prime example, look at the numbers for Battle Under the Big Top vs their other non bid awarding comps.
2. Would the amount for paid bids be the same if at-larges did not attend?
3. Like I mentioned before, if we REALLY wanted to be honest with ourselves there would realistically be 10-15 teams in each division. So we are looking at maybe 70 teams. Admission cost would most definately boost up if that were the case.