All-Star Amazing Level 2 Teams?

[NJ Coach]

Before the merger I am pretty sure East Elite would compete Senior 4 part the year and then go level 5 for a few competitions to get a bid to worlds in Small Senior 5 (someone correct me if I am wrong). I think if it is a team that continues to place in the top 10 at worlds then they should probably just stick to being level 5 all year, but if they are doing something like Rubies did one year where they go level 5 just to get a bid and see what worlds is like for those athletes that wouldn't get the chance any other time then I don't see a problem.

This was also before the restricted 5 division. My guess is EE would've picked that instead of sr 4.

 

[cheerislife1]

Before the merger I am pretty sure East Elite would compete Senior 4 part the year and then go level 5 for a few competitions to get a bid to worlds in Small Senior 5 (someone correct me if I am wrong). I think if it is a team that continues to place in the top 10 at worlds then they should probably just stick to being level 5 all year, but if they are doing something like Rubies did one year where they go level 5 just to get a bid and see what worlds is like for those athletes that wouldn't get the chance any other time then I don't see a problem.

they went large senior 5 i believe. they already had the small senior team which was their main level 5 team

 

[kristenthegreat]

Again, I don't mind teams trying to play up on occasion. I know some teams have one or two athletes with a level above tumbling, and some can stunt a bit higher, so for maybe a local comp towards the end of the season with nobody to go against, they try level 4 instead of 3 and throw the best they have. They still compete their true competitive level at more major nationals, but we all know how many small senior teams have one full and could probably be a kick-butt level 4/restricted 5 instead..

Or put it this way: Would you rather impress people by doing well at a level above, or disgust people by competing a level below? Consider that..

 

[CoachTamara]

So, what is the next step? Will this discussion take it anywhere?
Obviously the conversations that take place on here that are beneficial to the sport usually end up making their way to the vote, and I really think this is one of them. The medium division conversation started here, and I think this is probably the most important issue this year that we have come across. So, like I said, what's next? I see conversations about the things that need to take place (credentialing, registration, etc), but I'm talking about the elimination of sandbagging, or even crossovers all together. Could this even become a possible option? What impact would it have to eliminate crossovers all together? Or, instead of the current limit of 3 teams, maybe 3 crossovers per team. This way injuries are fine, even a few injuries, but not excessive. Especially a small team, I cannot see needing more than this. Thoughts?
I just want to move forward with this, especially since I just realized my youth 1 gets to compete against a stacked team this weekend. Yes, I saw your senior level 4 kids come down to youth 1 to beat us. THANKS, you guys are a class act.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I could be completely wrong, because I don't know personally, and this is just what I was told 3-4 years ago, and anyone from Buffalo Envy, please feel free to correct me.

But doesn't their worlds senior 5 team also compete senior 4? My senior year, we competed against them, and my coach told us that they switch back and forth between 4 and 5 throughout the season (mainly just for a bid comp, and worlds and maybe locals? i don't remember exactly what she said). While that isn't as extreme as level 2-4/5, they still could go open/restricted 5 like spice did last year...

I'm not from this organization, but I do remember this in either 08 or 09.

 

[peytonnmariee]

That video was great but

How many other level 5 cheerleaders do y'all have on your level 2 team?

Haha jk just thought I'd throw that out there considering out current discussion.

just him! haha hes not a level 5 team...hes on level 2,3&4!

 

[peytonnmariee]

j

Wow I can't wait to see what he can do in five years he's going to be amazing

for sure! he already is, he competed in the "so you think you can tumble"
compeition at cheersport nationals in atlanta too

 

[peytonnmariee]

just him! haha hes not a level 5 team...hes on level 2,3&4!

i meant, hes not on a level 5 team* we dont even have a lvl 5 in our gym yet!

 

[BowsnBling]

I could be completely wrong, because I don't know personally, and this is just what I was told 3-4 years ago, and anyone from Buffalo Envy, please feel free to correct me.

But doesn't their worlds senior 5 team also compete senior 4? My senior year, we competed against them, and my coach told us that they switch back and forth between 4 and 5 throughout the season (mainly just for a bid comp, and worlds and maybe locals? i don't remember exactly what she said). While that isn't as extreme as level 2-4/5, they still could go open/restricted 5 like spice did last year...

I feel like we competed against them and they were small senior level 4 small gym at nca and then were at worlds a couple of months later.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

This may be getting into something else all together, but I really DON'T think small gyms use crossovers as much as large gyms. Around here, most of the kids that are at small gyms cannot afford to crossover to multiple teams, where large gyms have the extra money to support a few more crossovers when needed. This is totally based on my area and the gyms around here, but I feel like there are significantly more crossovers from the larger gyms.
In the same aspect, small teams don't have the ability to "stack" teams, or develop teams solely for the purpose of winning a big competition. If I opened a try out to my entire gym to kids that wanted to travel to Dallas, I might have a few tucks but they would still be outnumbered by kids that were truly level 2, and offset by level 1 kids with no tumbling.
I said it earlier and I stand by this-crossovers are not killing the small gyms; situations like this are. And I'm starting to agree with some other statements saying that things like this are really going to begin impacting the sport in a major way. What happens when a true level 2 kid cannot compete in their division because they'll lose to kids that have been doing a BHS for 10 years? Keep them at level 1? Yeah right. There they go to another sport.

If you get a second. Go to http://www.spiritpost.com I wrote an article outlining exactly what you just said! BlueCat didn't seem to agree with me.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

So, what is the next step? Will this discussion take it anywhere?
Obviously the conversations that take place on here that are beneficial to the sport usually end up making their way to the vote, and I really think this is one of them. The medium division conversation started here, and I think this is probably the most important issue this year that we have come across. So, like I said, what's next? I see conversations about the things that need to take place (credentialing, registration, etc), but I'm talking about the elimination of sandbagging, or even crossovers all together. Could this even become a possible option? What impact would it have to eliminate crossovers all together? Or, instead of the current limit of 3 teams, maybe 3 crossovers per team. This way injuries are fine, even a few injuries, but not excessive. Especially a small team, I cannot see needing more than this. Thoughts?
I just want to move forward with this, especially since I just realized my youth 1 gets to compete against a stacked team this weekend. Yes, I saw your senior level 4 kids come down to youth 1 to beat us. THANKS, you guys are a class act.

You better believe this issue will be brought up at the NACCC meeting in May. I would honestly like to hear if more coaches are for or against this issue.

 

[TwistersPride]

You better believe this issue will be brought up at the NACCC meeting in May. I would honestly like to hear if more coaches are for or against this issue.

as a coach, i respectfully disagree with your thoughts on crossovers and small gyms. We are a small gym (less than 75 athletes) and this is the first season that we have used crossovers. It has been our most successful year yet. We were able to take our kids and put them on teams that were level appropriate instead of putting them on whatever team they fit on age wise. Last year we had a Youth 2 which is where all of our Youth age kids were placed. There were a number of kids that were not ready for the sharktank that is Youth 2, and it held back the kids that were ready and were working hard. Fast forward to this year- we currently have a small number of kids who are truley a Youth 1 (age and skill), yet there are not enough of these kids to make a full team. We learned our lesson on this last year- so we made them a team. We have girls who cross up from our Mini 2 team to help fill out the Youth 1. The Mini 2 girls that crossover are bases and back spots on the Mini 2- on Youth 1, two of them are fliers. They get to experience different roles of the sport, while making a successful team for those Youth 1 athletes. We have the same type of situation with our older teams.

being able to use those crossovers to make sure kids are all appropriatley placed on teams has made all the difference in the world for us and our success.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

as a coach, i respectfully disagree with your thoughts on crossovers and small gyms. We are a small gym (less than 75 athletes) and this is the first season that we have used crossovers. It has been our most successful year yet. We were able to take our kids and put them on teams that were level appropriate instead of putting them on whatever team they fit on age wise. Last year we had a Youth 2 which is where all of our Youth age kids were placed. There were a number of kids that were not ready for the sharktank that is Youth 2, and it held back the kids that were ready and were working hard. Fast forward to this year- we currently have a small number of kids who are truley a Youth 1 (age and skill), yet there are not enough of these kids to make a full team. We learned our lesson on this last year- so we made them a team. We have girls who cross up from our Mini 2 team to help fill out the Youth 1. The Mini 2 girls that crossover are bases and back spots on the Mini 2- on Youth 1, two of them are fliers. They get to experience different roles of the sport, while making a successful team for those Youth 1 athletes. We have the same type of situation with our older teams.

being able to use those crossovers to make sure kids are all appropriatley placed on teams has made all the difference in the world for us and our success.

We can all argue instances that work for us or against us. The OP was referring to stacking teams and how under the current system larger gym who want to can use the crossover rules or lack of to beat small gyms. I think you would agree with her if you've ever watched a team win constantly in a lower level. What if your youth 1 was at every competition with a cross town rival that had a youth 1 made up of youth 2 and 3 kids. Would you still disagree?

I've had a team of 5 kids for a full year. We did a great job of working with them and the next year that team grew to 14 kids. Cross overs are a not a necessity in this sport just a convienent option. IMO.

 

[TwistersPride]

We can all argue instances that work for us or against us. The OP was referring to stacking teams and how under the current system larger gym who want to can use the crossover rules or lack of to beat small gyms. I think you would agree with her if you've ever watched a team win constantly in a lower level. What if your youth 1 was at every competition with a cross town rival that had a youth 1 made up of youth 2 and 3 kids. Would you still disagree?

I've had a team of 5 kids for a full year. We did a great job of working with them and the next year that team grew to 14 kids. Cross overs are a not a necessity in this sport just a convienent option. IMO.

i was talking in reference to your blog about it more than the post. I am very much against teams sandbagging to win. in our gym we emphasis working your way to the top- not just getting placed there. I am pointing out that there are times when having crossovers makes a big difference for the kids involved and can benefit small gyms. Instead of these youth 1 girls being moved onto a Junior 2 where they were left behind, they are on a Youth 1 where they are very successful this year.

I also have had a team of 5, but if i have 4 level 1 kids, and i can add 4 crossovers to give me two stunt groups and some options for a pyramid- i'll take it.

 

[mommadonna]

And you have nailed my biggest fear. That sandbagging will become the norm because that is the only way you can hope to compete. And eventually there won't even be a place for a true level 1 or 2 maybe even level 3 athlete. Stretching the rules is like a disease, it doesn't just happen once and stop. It becomes the 'new normal' - continuing to slowly corrupt and corrode your sport as each team struggles to find a way to succeed against those that don't 'play fair'.

That's what I was trying to say in my post earlier in this thread. If care is not taken to keep things fair, then this sport has the potential to swallow itself whole.