All-Star Doral Coaches Meeting This Week

[Ashley]

That is the heart of my arguement. I have heard what Bluecat is saying from the USASF in regards to the age. It is not the responsibility of the USASF to play "moral police" for All Star programs and if they feel they must do so then there is a deeper problem that this will not solve. If they have facts to support this age rule then let's see them. If they cannot reveal those facts at risk of compromising some All Star programs then take those same facts and address it with the programs from which those facts originated. If they cannot or will not do this then the problem rests at the top of the USASF. Like it or not the responsibility of anything that is done within a company rests squarely on the shoulders of the President of that organization.

I am tired of this so called compromise that is, in my opinion, only a continuation of the same "ready fire aim" methodology that is doomed to fail....... and appears headed in that direction.

Are you saying that there has to have been incidents of inappropriate behavior for the USASF to change the age grid? You can't see why there would be an image issue with allowing twenty-something men on a team with 14 year old girls?

There's a huge difference between being on a team with someone and being part of the same gym. I know some of the kids on our senior team from being part of the same gym, but I don't know them as well as I know my own teammates who I hang out with.

Likewise, in response to your other comment, the real issues weren't with the block party. It was with the impromptu party at the sports resort. USASF has the block party to try and prevent parties like that. Go to NCA College Nationals and see what happens when the competition is over. It's a bunch of partying - except at least in that case the athletes are of age (for the most part).

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I have heard those reasons indirectly as well. I hope you understand none of this is pointed toward you. I don't see the safety and image concern with this. The same kids all practice at the same gym and compete at the same venues. If it truely a safety and image concern then seperate them completely. Furthermore why promote the block party at Worlds where problems have existed and continue to exist. What data do they have to support thier stance or is it as you said "thier opinion"? As for the image I believe there are more pressing image concerns other than this.

I think part of the image problem is that if you were to ask any non-cheer related father if he is comfortable with his 14 year old daughter joining a sport that essentially puts girls that are barely teenagers on the same team with college aged guys, the answer 95% of the time will be a big fat "no".

 

[BowsnBling]

I think part of the image problem is that if you were to ask any non-cheer related father if he is comfortable with his 14 year old daughter joining a sport that essentially puts girls that are barely teenagers on the same team with college aged guys, the answer 95% of the time will be a big fat "no".

This is where I am coming from.

 

[idrive]

This is where I am coming from.

Guys, I was that 95% saying NO! and not because I didn't want my child on any particular team. I just didn't want anything to do with cheer.

When my child practices with the college kids (guys and girls) my wife and/or I am there watching what goes on and it is encouraged by the coaches. Quite frankly our kids practice and the coaches maintain control of what goes on in the practice. Our college kids are very mindful and respectful of the fact there are younger kids on the team and in the gym. I can't say what goes on in other gyms but as for my kids gym I have grown to fully trust them with my child.

I think the bigger image issue (for me) is how some of the uniforms have begun to shrink over the past few years and how some kids think it is OK to wear what they do and say they are in All Star Cheer. If my child was looking to get into this sport now I would be saying NO simply because of the way I see these kids dressed.

Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure we won't all agree on the image issues but that is where I am on this.

 

[Ashley]

Guys, I was that 95% saying NO! and not because I didn't want my child on any particular team. I just didn't want anything to do with cheer.

When my child practices with the college kids (guys and girls) my wife and/or I am there watching what goes on and it is encouraged by the coaches. Quite frankly our kids practice and the coaches maintain control of what goes on in the practice. Our college kids are very mindful and respectful of the fact there are younger kids on the team and in the gym. I can't say what goes on in other gyms but as for my kids gym I have grown to fully trust them with my child.

I think the bigger image issue (for me) is how some of the uniforms have begun to shrink over the past few years and how some kids think it is OK to wear what they do and say they are in All Star Cheer. If my child was looking to get into this sport now I would be saying NO simply because of the way I see these kids dressed.

Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure we won't all agree on the image issues but that is where I am on this.

My gym is great about the older kids interacting with the younger kids too. We went to Worlds with two open teams and a senior team, and my gym owner made it clear that the college kids were not allowed to party with the high school kids (obviously). We've never had any issues at our gym either, but the reality of the situation isn't what's important, it's the appearance of the situation. Outside people don't care whether or not college kids can behave themselves around the younger ones, it's how the situation looks to Suzie's dad that's important.

I agree with you on the uniform issue, for what it's worth.

 

[idrive]

My gym is great about the older kids interacting with the younger kids too. We went to Worlds with two open teams and a senior team, and my gym owner made it clear that the college kids were not allowed to party with the high school kids (obviously). We've never had any issues at our gym either, but the reality of the situation isn't what's important, it's the appearance of the situation. Outside people don't care whether or not college kids can behave themselves around the younger ones, it's how the situation looks to Suzie's dad that's important.

I agree with you on the uniform issue, for what it's worth.

Speaking as a dad I don't want guys around my daughters at all.

 

[ztaprincess]

Guys, I was that 95% saying NO! and not because I didn't want my child on any particular team. I just didn't want anything to do with cheer.

When my child practices with the college kids (guys and girls) my wife and/or I am there watching what goes on and it is encouraged by the coaches. Quite frankly our kids practice and the coaches maintain control of what goes on in the practice. Our college kids are very mindful and respectful of the fact there are younger kids on the team and in the gym. I can't say what goes on in other gyms but as for my kids gym I have grown to fully trust them with my child.

I think the bigger image issue (for me) is how some of the uniforms have begun to shrink over the past few years and how some kids think it is OK to wear what they do and say they are in All Star Cheer. If my child was looking to get into this sport now I would be saying NO simply because of the way I see these kids dressed.

Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure we won't all agree on the image issues but that is where I am on this.

The fact that a close eye has to be kept on the athlete because of the situation is to be a problem. I understand why they would do that, but if you have to have parents watching practices like a hawk because there is a group of 25 year old guys and a few 14 year old girls then that is enough for me to realize a change needs to be made in the age guidelines.
There is no way my dad would have ever agreed for me to be on a team at 14 with college age or college graduate men. He would simply state a child has no place on a team with grown MEN.

I absolutely hate that this hurts the athletes who were going to be on an International team, it is never fun to have something taken from you, but when looking at the bigger picture (to me at least) changing the age is the right thing to do.

 

[Ashley]

I absolutely hate that this hurts the athletes who were going to be on an International team, it is never fun to have something taken from you, but when looking at the bigger picture (to me at least) changing the age is the right thing to do.

Ultimately, it's not the USASF's job to make sure that as many gyms as possible can field level 5 teams. It's their job to do what's best for the sport as a whole. Theoretically, of course. We all know that's not really the case in practice.

 

[Deleted member 382]

The fact that a close eye has to be kept on the athlete because of the situation is to be a problem. I understand why they would do that, but if you have to have parents watching practices like a hawk because there is a group of 25 year old guys and a few 14 year old girls then that is enough for me to realize a change needs to be made in the age guidelines.
There is no way my dad would have ever agreed for me to be on a team at 14 with college age or college graduate men. He would simply state a child has no place on a team with grown MEN.

I absolutely hate that this hurts the athletes who were going to be on an International team, it is never fun to have something taken from you, but when looking at the bigger picture (to me at least) changing the age is the right thing to do.

I see your point, but I watch my daughters' teams practice like a hawk and it isn't because they have grown men on thier team. It is because they have grown men coaching. I am 100% confident that those grown men are not going to do anything inappropriate to my children (otherwise we wouldn't be in the gym in the first place), but there have been too many instances where something has happened. Then everyone say "Why weren't the parents watching? How could no one have seen something was wrong?" I'm pretty sure those parents didn't think it would ever happen in their gym either.

 

[BowsnBling]

I see your point, but I watch my daughters' teams practice like a hawk and it isn't because they have grown men on thier team. It is because they have grown men coaching. I am 100% confident that those grown men are not going to do anything inappropriate to my children (otherwise we wouldn't be in the gym in the first place), but there have been too many instances where something has happened. Then everyone say "Why weren't the parents watching? How could no one have seen something was wrong?" I'm pretty sure those parents didn't think it would ever happen in their gym either.

From a coaches point of view there are things that are discussed between teammates that when you are 'just watching' you will not hear nor hear about. To me it is the same as an 11 year old being on a senior team with girls that are 18, they talk about different things. No team is perfect but I guess what I am saying is that I know that things of an older nature are discussed, maybe not with your child but they might hear it, ya know what I mean?

 

[Deleted member 382]

From a coaches point of view there are things that are discussed between teammates that when you are 'just watching' you will not hear nor hear about. To me it is the same as an 11 year old being on a senior team with girls that are 18, they talk about different things. No team is perfect but I guess what I am saying is that I know that things of an older nature are discussed, maybe not with your child but they might hear it, ya know what I mean?

I completely know what you mean. My oldest was asked to help for part of the season on a senior team (and she was 10). Thankfully, she lives in a bubble and did have some older kids watching out for her that she missed most of the older "conversations". This year she had the opportunity to be placed on a senior team again, but we requested she not be because of the conversations happening on the floor.

 

[ztaprincess]

Ultimately, it's not the USASF's job to make sure that as many gyms as possible can field level 5 teams. It's their job to do what's best for the sport as a whole. Theoretically, of course. We all know that's not really the case in practice.

Exactly, the USASF doesn't control if your gym has a level 5 team or not. They have to look at the picture as a whole.
I also want to say that many get upset that senior teams have flyers who are the size of a "fetus" and are super small and young because it makes it easier for them. Well a 25 year old throwing around a 14 year old is a lot easier then a 25 year old throwing around another 25 year old. If you don't want to see smaller athletes flying on senior teams then the same can be said about International teams. On top of that people complained about the level 1-4 age for senior teams and how athletes that young shouldn't be on a team with an 18 year old, well a 14 year old on a team with a 25 year old is just as bad. When minors are involved there should never be an age difference of 10+ years between athletes.

 

[Mom Jeans]

^^^a few months ago Im not sure that I wouldve agreed, after the fiasco at the Allstar, I would eat my words there were some very potentially dangerous situations and level heads were clouded. Id be pissed if I had a 14 yr old that was hanging out with her team full of, not just older male athletes but older female athletes as well. There needs to be something done to minimize potential dangers

 

[BowsnBling]

I completely know what you mean. My oldest was asked to help for part of the season on a senior team (and she was 10). Thankfully, she lives in a bubble and did have some older kids watching out for her that she missed most of the older "conversations". This year she had the opportunity to be placed on a senior team again, but we requested she not be because of the conversations happening on the floor.

I applaud you for parenting your child and letting her grow up in her own time, so many kids want to grow up to fast , not saying yours does but you get what I mean

 

[yojaehs]

From a coaches point of view there are things that are discussed between teammates that when you are 'just watching' you will not hear nor hear about. To me it is the same as an 11 year old being on a senior team with girls that are 18, they talk about different things. No team is perfect but I guess what I am saying is that I know that things of an older nature are discussed, maybe not with your child but they might hear it, ya know what I mean?

Ok, I would like to address this statement. In Doral the discussion to "adjust" the age grid for IOC/IO 5 was brought up at the same time the bottom age for Seniors was brought up. I would like to know, WHY we have an issue with a 14 year old in International team (mainly consisting of 18, 19, 20 year olds) but DON'T have an issue with a 10 year old with 17, 18, 19 (depending on cut off date). Honestly I see all sides, but I feel you are EITHER ok with the 10 AND 14, or your not with either. Not specifically brought up as a proposal but I heard talk of - "Why not have International being 17 & up for US comps i.e. NCA, Cheersport etc. and 14 & up at Worlds?" This allows to keep those kids on your senior teams AND use them at Worlds (if that team isn't a "World's" team). Just some ideas bounced around.

I personally think there are TWO main differences between US and International teams when it comes to this division.
#1 They have NO OTHER OPTION for teams to put that 14, 15 year old on, meaning they don't have A. Small Senior B. Medium Senior C. Large Senior D. Small Coed E. Medium Coed F. Large Coed (not saying they don't have the option, but simply those teams don't exist YET Internationally)
#2 They don't have NCA, Cheersport, Indy, UCA etc. as MAJOR events to compete in where they see the level that we do in the U.S. so World's is their "one shot". Yes, Worlds for U.S. International teams is the "biggest" deal, but winning NCA is equally (IMO) as big of an accomplishment.

Personally I'd LOVE to see the U.S. go to 17 & up, the argument has been that International teams will have an unfair advantage. My thoughts are (over time) International teams will catch the U.S., but guess what, the ONLY way International teams will catch the U.S. is by growing their YOUNGER teams/kids, so by the time they do start catching up to our teams that are 17 & up, they will have be able to field a Sm sr, sm coed etc. Now this is just thoughts and I'm sure there is are more reasons out there against what I am saying, but the positive for ME going to Doral is that things change in a positive way, but they TAKE TIME. So take a breath, think things through, remove your PERSONAL opinion and think "big picture"

Also, just bc I'm curious, can anyone think of the # of athletes that were younger than 17 that globed in the International Divisions this year? I'm not saying that there weren't any, I'm just curious.
Thanks! Happy ripping!