From Flyer To Base?

[CheerBank]

And yet, earlier this week I saw a little onesie on some website that said "Future Flyer" Why can't it say "Future All Star" or "Future Cheerleader":banghead:

I saw that and thought the same exact thing!!!!

 

[HeyMom]

IMHO, cheer is probably the only team sport where no one person can be "the star". All of the elements of the routine have to work together to be successful. I just don't see any reason to highlight any one skill set over the other.

 

[eatsleepcheer]

I had the same problem last year, but I just did what was best for the team and you can preform in every other part of the routine. I know it'sweird not flying but you will get used to it. Just do your best. Rather base than not cheer at all right

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Size is relative, but you'd be surprised how much a bad attitude weighs.

Grab a shoe, princess.

You win life.

I might incorporate this into my lexicon for the next time I have to break it to a new J3 that their flyer skills from Y2 don't transfer and they'll be basing this season.

The Youth to Junior flyer struggle is so real. They just don't understand that they grew a whole foot and are now taller than every flyer by a mile now, that and the skills are all fully extended at all times and they're not progressing as well as they used to.

Your height is now needed on the ground. Sorry. Lift with your legs, honeybun!

 

[ashscott41]

You win life.

I might incorporate this into my lexicon for the next time I have to break it to a new J3 that their flyer skills from Y2 don't transfer and they'll be basing this season.

Please don't. If a coach ever said that to me, I would walk out of the gym and probably never return to the sport. Girls at 10-13 are so very fragile. If they hit puberty a little earlier than their friends and suddenly grew a foot, they're already going to be insanely self-conscious in their new bodies. Being that sarcastic will only kill their confidence even more. I've been thinking about how much I hated Edie's comment for days, but now it's made me realize that despite all the talk of what is "too big" to fly, we've never really discussed the appropriate ways to tell an athlete they're going to change positions.

So on that note, does anyone have any tips on things that have worked for them in the past? I think the most important parts of that conversation are that it needs to happen in private, early in the season (first or second practice), the coach needs to be honest (and not say "oh well you might get to fly in quantity," when that's not true. Don't get their hopes up.), and that the athletes need to understand that it is not their fault the change is happening. It is not a punishment, it's not because of anything they did wrong, it's simply the best decision for the team. Don't mention the body.

The composition of teams is different every year and this year we feel you could be more helpful to the team as a ________. You have a long future in the sport and in order to make you a well-rounded athlete, we want you to be a ________ this year. I'm sure there are many other ways to say it, but "grab a shoe princess" is never appropriate.

 

[Keep_Believing]

The comment did focus on height, not weight. I think the second part, we need your height to help keep stunts up is honest and appropriate. That is pretty much what was explained to my daughter when she was switched, we need your height and strength to help the stunts stay up.

 

[dawgshow]

My daughter has never required an explanation when changing roles. It's always been "you're basing in this group" or "you're flying here". End of discussion.

 

[123jump4!]

My daughter has never required an explanation when changing roles. It's always been "you're basing in this group" or "you're flying here". End of discussion.

That's great that she is fine without requiring an explanation! I think though that a quick explanation can help an athlete move on quicker. Something like "we need your height and strength" sounds good. When I played soccer I was moved from forward to midfield. It took me a little while to get over but definitely helped when the coach said something like "we need you to get the ball more" or whatever it was.

 

[dawgshow]

That's great that she is fine without requiring an explanation! I think though that a quick explanation can help an athlete move on quicker. Something like "we need your height and strength" sounds good. When I played soccer I was moved from forward to midfield. It took me a little while to get over but definitely helped when the coach said something like "we need you to get the ball more" or whatever it was.

My point was this was the gym's attitude from day 1. It really shows that every position is crucial. If every position is important, why would someone need their ego stroked to feel better about moving. If a child needed that explanation then the parent could say "they need you there because of x".

 

[123jump4!]

My point was this was the gym's attitude from day 1. It really shows that every position is crucial. If every position is important, why would someone need their ego stroked to feel better about moving. If a child needed that explanation then the parent could say "they need you there because of x".

I don't disagree with you, it sounds like your gym has a great attitutde. Yeah if someone's upset the parent can say something.

My CP is a flyer because she's one of the youngest on the team and small. She loves it. I have already prepared her for the fact that she's not always going to be a flyer and bases are of course very important too. She seems cool about it.

 

[Aussiekat]

Please don't. If a coach ever said that to me, I would walk out of the gym and probably never return to the sport. Girls at 10-13 are so very fragile. If they hit puberty a little earlier than their friends and suddenly grew a foot, they're already going to be insanely self-conscious in their new bodies. Being that sarcastic will only kill their confidence even more. I've been thinking about how much I hated Edie's comment for days, but now it's made me realize that despite all the talk of what is "too big" to fly, we've never really discussed the appropriate ways to tell an athlete they're going to change positions.

So on that note, does anyone have any tips on things that have worked for them in the past? I think the most important parts of that conversation are that it needs to happen in private, early in the season (first or second practice), the coach needs to be honest (and not say "oh well you might get to fly in quantity," when that's not true. Don't get their hopes up.), and that the athletes need to understand that it is not their fault the change is happening. It is not a punishment, it's not because of anything they did wrong, it's simply the best decision for the team. Don't mention the body.

The composition of teams is different every year and this year we feel you could be more helpful to the team as a ________. You have a long future in the sport and in order to make you a well-rounded athlete, we want you to be a ________ this year. I'm sure there are many other ways to say it, but "grab a shoe princess" is never appropriate.

The more you make it a big deal, the more the kid makes it a big deal. And this woman (she is in college, right?) made it a big deal.

I'm not an idiot, or a callous person. I'm a recovered anorexic and there no explanation that I've encountered that telling someone to "grab a shoe, princess," would cause a full blown eating disorder. The causes of eating disorders are varied, nuanced and deeply rooted in control issues. I am able to identify children at potential risk, have done so and spoken to parents before, but again she is not a child.

I do think flyers have been made to be the stars of this sport, whether we like it or not- and I don't like it, either as a flyer and as a coach. So when a princess comes in the boards, or comes to me in class, and says "why aren't I flying anymore, basing is so hard and I love being the star" you better believe I am going to shut that down fast. The bigger a deal you make out of it, the bigger a deal it is to them. I'm not completely insensitive and I keep an eye on the kids I coach, and talk to them (and their parents) if necessary. But if you're an adult who can't talk to your coach and come to a forum asking for opinions on why you can no longer be the star? Ughhh. Get over it and grab a dang shoe.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Please don't. If a coach ever said that to me, I would walk out of the gym and probably never return to the sport. Girls at 10-13 are so very fragile. If they hit puberty a little earlier than their friends and suddenly grew a foot, they're already going to be insanely self-conscious in their new bodies. Being that sarcastic will only kill their confidence even more. I've been thinking about how much I hated Edie's comment for days, but now it's made me realize that despite all the talk of what is "too big" to fly, we've never really discussed the appropriate ways to tell an athlete they're going to change positions.

So on that note, does anyone have any tips on things that have worked for them in the past? I think the most important parts of that conversation are that it needs to happen in private, early in the season (first or second practice), the coach needs to be honest (and not say "oh well you might get to fly in quantity," when that's not true. Don't get their hopes up.), and that the athletes need to understand that it is not their fault the change is happening. It is not a punishment, it's not because of anything they did wrong, it's simply the best decision for the team. Don't mention the body.

The composition of teams is different every year and this year we feel you could be more helpful to the team as a ________. You have a long future in the sport and in order to make you a well-rounded athlete, we want you to be a ________ this year. I'm sure there are many other ways to say it, but "grab a shoe princess" is never appropriate.

As someone who has had this convo before, there is no easy way to do it.

I start the season out by letting EVERYONE know at all the meetings that where you were last year, might not be where you are this season and to be prepared for that.

Of course, not everyone heeds that advice.

Then we start summer practices and I tell people again that NOTHING is set in stone until around choreography time, and that they need to prep for some possible changes.

Again, in one ear and out the other.

Then the changes in positions that I've been prepping people for actually start happening. I tell them privately, and I try to phrase it as "You are now needed as a base." Yet it still becomes a big deal because when I GAVE heads up 2 months ago, no one really listened because it is generally assumed that "Oh she's not talking to me. She's talking about other girls."

Even when I personally have told a girl over summer "Your flyer skills haven't been maintained well and you might be better suited for basing" I don't think they are fully aware of what I'm saying (that you may not fly this year because there are better skills on this team right now.)

I try to be as gentle as possible when the initial change occurs, but really, they know. It's never a surprise. Somehow, it still ends up being a big deal, no matter how private, in advance, etc. the notifications are. I maintain a very "skills-based" tone when we discuss it, and most girls get it. However, a lot of times, AFTER I've told them, there are instances of repeated:

"Oh my god I can't believe I'm basing it hurtttttts my baccck."
"I'm quitting because I hate basing."
Crying every other practice over it and threatening to get her mom to chew me out.

I try hard to maintain my same deadpan explanation with my juniors but if this was a few months ago, and you keep whining about it, I'm going to tell you that you need to a.) get to basing or b.) quit because I need a (willing and non-whining) BASE and have a team to think about.

 

[Aussiekat]

Second post to ask, is there ever an appropriate way to talk a base that their body has changed, and the team has changed, and now she's going to be a backspot. It's nothing she's done, but her skills and shape are better utilised as a back…

The more we treat flyers as special little snowflakes the more disservice we do to them, and to all the bases that make up the majority of the sport we all love.

 

[cheer25mom]

Please don't. If a coach ever said that to me, I would walk out of the gym and probably never return to the sport. Girls at 10-13 are so very fragile. If they hit puberty a little earlier than their friends and suddenly grew a foot, they're already going to be insanely self-conscious in their new bodies. Being that sarcastic will only kill their confidence even more. I've been thinking about how much I hated Edie's comment for days, but now it's made me realize that despite all the talk of what is "too big" to fly, we've never really discussed the appropriate ways to tell an athlete they're going to change positions.

So on that note, does anyone have any tips on things that have worked for them in the past? I think the most important parts of that conversation are that it needs to happen in private, early in the season (first or second practice), the coach needs to be honest (and not say "oh well you might get to fly in quantity," when that's not true. Don't get their hopes up.), and that the athletes need to understand that it is not their fault the change is happening. It is not a punishment, it's not because of anything they did wrong, it's simply the best decision for the team. Don't mention the body.

The composition of teams is different every year and this year we feel you could be more helpful to the team as a ________. You have a long future in the sport and in order to make you a well-rounded athlete, we want you to be a ________ this year. I'm sure there are many other ways to say it, but "grab a shoe princess" is never appropriate.

Honestly, I don't think there is any need to sugar coat it. No one's position on a team is guaranteed and may change at any time. Do we call someone in for a private conference every time we need to move them? I think that is unnecessary. My CP has always been a main base, loved to main base, and that was the only thing she had ever been taught to do. She grew 3 inches over the summer, and is now a backspot because she is one of the tallest kids on the team. There was no big conference or letting her down gently. She wasn't happy about it, but she was told to suck it up and do what was needed, end of conversation. It should be the same for every kid on the team. Everyone does what is needed to help the team, and no one has the right to pitch a fit about being asked to fill any spot. As someone else said, don't make a big deal about it. Assign the spots and stand behind it. Let the cry if they want to, but do give in to parents pitching hissy fits about Suzy being taken down. They will have to get over it or find a new activity.

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

Let's get rid of the flyers in our sport all together. We could have jumps, tumbling and the dance. Maybe since there would no longer be elite stunt sequences, baskets or pyramids they could actually do a cheer?

Crucify me if you want but I am so tired of hearing the flyer hate.

Do I think the flyer is a more important position than a base? Absolutely not.

Do I think the base is a more important position than a flyer? Absolutely not.

Have I been annoyed to no end by hearing a former flyer and/or her mother whine and rant because former flyer is now a base? Absolutely.

Have I heard main bases/side bases/backspots and or their mothers whining because they have had to move to a different position as a base? Absolutely.

I have personally wanted to say unkind things to people whining about the position changes on more than one occasion. Some of those people made it hard to hold my tongue.

Yes all the positions are important. All of them.

For the record my CP is a flyer. She is also a beast base!!!!!!! She works her tail off in both of those positions and she is happy when she does well in both of them.

The responses from so many on the subject are so full of hate. "Oh no they aren't" you may be saying to yourself as you read this. But yes, many times (more often than not) they really are.

So what is the deal? What is the stigma? I mean what was the personal experience for you or your CP that caused such a bitter taste for flyers? Do you actually have a bad personal experience or are you just going along with the crowd?

Let's just do away with the flyer positions and be done with it.

Feel free to go ahead and attack me now but know this: Neither my CP nor myself feel that her position in a stunt group, basket, or pyramid make her more important than anyone else on her team. Maybe we are in the minority on that.

Now to use the "ignore" function...