All-Star High School Cheer A Sport In The State Of Kentucky?

[yojaehs]

As a school administrator and someone who has taken several courses on school lawa I disagree. Public schools and their associations do have some rights with respect to behavior that does not occur on school grounds - especially if they can prove that it has an impact on the school related activity. I would guess that each person who competes as a part of MHSAA has to sign a contract including a code of conduct in which the athlete agrees to abide by the regulations. An athlete might have grounds in court if they refuse to sign the contract/code of conduct... That is also why it is possible for athletes to be suspended from teams or other school activities if they are found to engage in underage drinking or other prohibited behavior even if it occurs outside of school time.

I in no way was trying to get into a who knows more about what kinda battle. I've seen a similar situation go to court, yes it was in a different state, no I don't know all the details. But it didn't hold up is my point. If it would in your area, so be it, my area allows both so it really doesn't currently concern me, I was just speaking from my own personal experience.

 

[believex123]

small world! I cheered at Rocky Point, where did you cheer?

i was on mt sinai, so we were close then!

 

[mariahnicole1216]

Is that a private or public school? If its a private school, often times they fall under a different set of rules, just curious.

Its a public school.

I've been out of it for a lot of years, but the IHSA says you cannot do both if the seasons intersect. I'm not sure if this falls for basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, soccer, etc. I'd be interested to know that since "clubs" exist for those too.

I only know for volleyball because most of my friends play it but their club seasons dont really intersect with the school season. And if it does its not for very long so they can easily do both. But even if we were allowed to do both, I dont understand how that would work. From the time of tryouts to the end of year banquet our season goes April-March. Our competitive season is Nov-Feb. I just cant see coaches working that out.

 

[lilmonstermaker]

I in no way was trying to get into a who knows more about what kinda battle. I've seen a similar situation go to court, yes it was in a different state, no I don't know all the details. But it didn't hold up is my point. If it would in your area, so be it, my area allows both so it really doesn't currently concern me, I was just speaking from my own personal experience.

Understood - and that is an important point to make. I just know that there are many athletes who come to these boards for advice and guidance and would hate for one of them to think that they can go against their association's regulations without any consequences...

 

[Cheerchick12]

BTW... Why is this thread in under Allstar? Shouldn't it be under high school?

 

[mariahnicole1216]

My high school team practices with the guys all summer? Or is that just for competition season?

We had camp and stuff with them but when we start actual practices on the 10th they wont be with us. From what my coach told us, I was under the impression we werent allowed to be coed until oct/nov. But I could have misunderstood her.

 

[ArizonaMVP]

In Arizona, cheer is still considered an "activity" and listed in the same sections as chess and debate club.

Before 2009, certain athletic teams were not allowed to participate in competing "club" sports (ie. football, basketball, soccer, track, etc.). That didn't affect cheer, and many girls crossed over to do both high school and allstars.

However, in March 2009, the AIA (Arizona Interscholastic Association) added cheer to that list, while still categorizing it as an activity. It was the only "activity" added to the non-participation rule. At least when my CP gets to high school, I can be comforted knowing she can be on the school chess team while also doing chess allstars. Whew. Dodged a bullet there.

This new rule has effectively killed significantly weakened the competitiveness of Arizona cheer. Girls now must choose between paying thousands of dollars to be on all-star cheer or paying considerably less to be doing high school cheer. You get the picture. All-stars in AZ has taken a beating.

Several local gyms joined together to get an injunction against the new rule. Here is the news article.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/07/cheerleading_companies_fight_t.php)

They lost. Here is the court document and some very interesting reading on the subject... http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/07/29/CheersAz.pdf

Apparently the reasoning behind the non-participation rule is something the AIA calls the "loyalty" rule. Students should put their high school team above their own self interest. They feel it isn't fair if team members miss practice or competitions during the school season. The "risk of injury and effect of fatigue"... blah, blah, blah. My favorite part is that they say it is contrary to their interest to have a student receiving coaching from the school while also possibly getting contradictory coaching from allstar. The joke is that it is the all-star coaches that are out working with the all the high schools in the area.

I am very frustrated over this issue...

 

[King]

In Arizona, cheer is still considered an "activity" and listed in the same sections as chess and debate club.

Before 2009, certain athletic teams were not allowed to participate in competing "club" sports (ie. football, basketball, soccer, track, etc.). That didn't affect cheer, and many girls crossed over to do both high school and allstars.

However, in March 2009, the AIA (Arizona Interscholastic Association) added cheer to that list, while still categorizing it as an activity. It was the only "activity" added to the non-participation rule. At least when my CP gets to high school, I can be comforted knowing she can be on the school chess team while also doing chess allstars. Whew. Dodged a bullet there.

This new rule has effectively killed significantly weakened the competitiveness of Arizona cheer. Girls now must choose between paying thousands of dollars to be on all-star cheer or paying considerably less to be doing high school cheer. You get the picture. All-stars in AZ has taken a beating.

Several local gyms joined together to get an injunction against the new rule. Here is the news article.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/07/cheerleading_companies_fight_t.php)

They lost. Here is the court document and some very interesting reading on the subject... http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/07/29/CheersAz.pdf

Apparently the reasoning behind the non-participation rule is something the AIA calls the "loyalty" rule. Students should put their high school team above their own self interest. They feel it isn't fair if team members miss practice or competitions during the school season. The "risk of injury and effect of fatigue"... blah, blah, blah. My favorite part is that they say it is contrary to their interest to have a student receiving coaching from the school while also possibly getting contradictory coaching from allstar. The joke is that it is the all-star coaches that are out working with the all the high schools in the area.

I am very frustrated over this issue...

Which leads me to believe our industry is reactive instead of proactive. We have no central organization (like USA football) that can dictate high school and allstar, what the boundaries are, and how things should work.

But, on the reverse of that is the fact that it should only affect high school teams.

 

[CoachD]

What are the chances of this going through and Kentucky not being able to compete out of state?

I'm not sure yet, but we have our yearly meeting of Louisville area coaches and KHSAA in a few weeks so I will pass along information as it comes.

 

[King]

I'm not sure yet, but we have our yearly meeting of Louisville area coaches and KHSAA in a few weeks so I will pass along information as it comes.

Would love to know how it turns out.

 

[ACEDAD]

I'm not sure yet, but we have our yearly meeting of Louisville area coaches and KHSAA in a few weeks so I will pass along information as it comes.

Make a scene, girl! Tell 'em what's what!

 

[AScheer]

As for the Kentucky discussion..

If you recall, two years ago NCA started another High School nationals in Louisville, so they have a national competition right in their backyard.

Raises an interesting point though... maybe the UCA schools would switch to NCA nationals if they weren't allowed to compete out of state?

The Louisville one is a joke, but its still new so could grow. However if they consider it a sport, and I could be wrong, but NCA would not be KHSSA supported so they still couldn't go even though its held in state.

Its a sport in our county, can't compete outta state which means nothing in regards to UCA BUT being a sport (in our county) doesn't allow you to compete on Sundays, so UCA is out. I am DEFINITELY interested to see what will happen with Kentucky, is Tennessee next!?

Nooo no no. Never Tennessee! Please! Our county actually took a step the other direction this year. If a team competes it has to be a club team - therefore no one from our county can compete at state, since they aren't the official school team (primary purpose cheering games.)

I'm not sure yet, but we have our yearly meeting of Louisville area coaches and KHSAA in a few weeks so I will pass along information as it comes.

Please do. I had almost booked our charter bus to Bluegrass regionals! Need to know if I'm making alternate plans that day or not!

This is a good and bad thing for us. Obviously we have a better shot of winning UCA without the KY team that dominates our division, but I'm one of those people that likes to go against the best. My stress level would probably go down but I would take a well earned 2nd any day over a give me first. And why pay all that money to go to Florida if we are competing against all the people we live 20 minutes away from and go against all year? Then the worst draw back would be if KY does change then TN will be close behind it, and I will no longer coach a school team!

 

[MissBee]

If a team competes it has to be a club team - therefore no one from our county can compete at state, since they aren't the official school team (primary purpose cheering games.)

Can't you just compete as a "Club" team with the school cheer team? I know tons of teams in other sports that do this. For example a soccer team from City North High School plays travel in the summer under a different name (i.e.: FC North).

 

[AScheer]

Can't you just compete as a "Club" team with the school cheer team? I know tons of teams in other sports that do this. For example a soccer team from City North High School plays travel in the summer under a different name (i.e.: FC North).

Yes. But its already starting to take its toll on the competitiveness that was around here, some schools (admins) don't wan't to deal with a club team. Some schools have struggled to find extra coaches to support a new team. In order to be a club its ran by a parent booster club and my school doesn't allow booster clubs - I also don't think its a good idea to give parents that much control! I think thats probably what it will go to though. The only schools that weren't effected were the few that already had a completely separate competition team. It all started because one mom complained to the school board that school cheer was too expensive! I happen to know the expense list of the school she was from and it was by far one of the cheaper ones! Some local gyms have started letting school teams use their name/uniform in order to compete so that may also be another future option if needed.

 

[ryann3794]

in Michigan sideline cheerleading is not considered an MHSAA sport, but competitive cheer - which is similar to all-star cheer is considered an MHSAA sport.

Michigan high school competitive cheer is not similar to all star at all