OT Inappropriate Discussions With Athletes

[cheertired]

I'm sorry you were put in that tough situation. Maybe tell the guys to lift more weights lol. Jk a little.

lol right? Hey if an all girl team can lift the same amount of weight no problem, then they shouldn't complain!

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

I think you are all saying the same thing but your approach is different.

@cheer25mom - you recognize that it is important to celebrate all body types and should tell your athletes that every body type is great. I am 100% behind that. I think that's super important. Unfortunately, that's not what kids hear from the media. TV, music, magazines, movies, commercials, all celebrate and put more worth on a certain type of body image that is highly unrealistic for much of the population. This is for both boys and girls. I think you need to keep telling them that Suzie's body type is just as wonderful as Sally's. The more influences in their life that show them they are just as worthy and important as the people in the magazines or on social media, the better. I think that's wonderful.

I think what people are saying is that because of the media and things that influence the younger generations, people who are in a mentor status (teachers, parents, coaches) need to watch how they say these things to kids. If you have the media saying "skinny people are beautiful, not skinny people aren't worth as much" and then you have a coach say "look Suzie, you can't fly because you're too heavy and your bases can't lift you", regardless if you did not intend to insult their weight, kids are going to link the two and assume they are fat. So I agree that the words you chose are important. I'm sure kids who are taller/heavier/more muscular than the other flyers know this and are already self conscious of it. To have a coach then say that to you adds salt to a pre existing wound, even if it's already what you think.

The person who mentioned that you need to take into consideration depressive/disordered mindsets is right. I can speak from experience that those can be easily hidden from just about anyone for extremely long periods of time. And they take a long time and a lot of work to fix your patterns of thinking. People who have the depressive/disordered thought patterns are already not thinking clearly or logically so they will probably not have the ability to take what you said and not be affected by it. They are going to go over every aspect of what you said and turn it into more fuel for their disordered thoughts. Over and over and over, picking apart every little thing. What you said, what words you chose, the tone of your voice, your facial expression when you said it, your body language when you said it, whether you were looking at them when you said it, what happened before you said it, how did you act after you said it, how are you treating them differently now, how are you treating the person filling their spot now, etc. That is the nature of it. When they do this it can lead to full blown disorders. So knowing that this stuff is a reality for some people, we can't assume that how you break the news will effect everyone the same way. It won't. It's like school - not everyone learns the same way. Because everyone's brains are different.

 

[cheer25mom]

I think you are all saying the same thing but your approach is different.

@cheer25mom - you recognize that it is important to celebrate all body types and should tell your athletes that every body type is great. I am 100% behind that. I think that's super important. Unfortunately, that's not what kids hear from the media. TV, music, magazines, movies, commercials, all celebrate and put more worth on a certain type of body image that is highly unrealistic for much of the population. This is for both boys and girls. I think you need to keep telling them that Suzie's body type is just as wonderful as Sally's. The more influences in their life that show them they are just as worthy and important as the people in the magazines or on social media, the better. I think that's wonderful.

I think what people are saying is that because of the media and things that influence the younger generations, people who are in a mentor status (teachers, parents, coaches) need to watch how they say these things to kids. If you have the media saying "skinny people are beautiful, not skinny people aren't worth as much" and then you have a coach say "look Suzie, you can't fly because you're too heavy and your bases can't lift you", regardless if you did not intend to insult their weight, kids are going to link the two and assume they are fat. So I agree that the words you chose are important. I'm sure kids who are taller/heavier/more muscular than the other flyers know this and are already self conscious of it. To have a coach then say that to you adds salt to a pre existing wound, even if it's already what you think.

The person who mentioned that you need to take into consideration depressive/disordered mindsets is right. I can speak from experience that those can be easily hidden from just about anyone for extremely long periods of time. And they take a long time and a lot of work to fix your patterns of thinking. People who have the depressive/disordered thought patterns are already not thinking clearly or logically so they will probably not have the ability to take what you said and not be affected by it. They are going to go over every aspect of what you said and turn it into more fuel for their disordered thoughts. Over and over and over, picking apart every little thing. What you said, what words you chose, the tone of your voice, your facial expression when you said it, your body language when you said it, whether you were looking at them when you said it, what happened before you said it, how did you act after you said it, how are you treating them differently now, how are you treating the person filling their spot now, etc. That is the nature of it. When they do this it can lead to full blown disorders. So knowing that this stuff is a reality for some people, we can't assume that how you break the news will effect everyone the same way. It won't. It's like school - not everyone learns the same way. Because everyone's brains are different.

I totally get what you are saying. We do have to be careful with our words, but I think we HAVE to be willing to broach the subject. I think that we would have fewer kids with bad body image or eating disorders if we were more willing to have open and honest communication about body type and body image. We are all so afraid of the topic that nothing gets said, so media stereotypes are the only voice kids are hearing. We are so scared of everything you mentioned above that no one is willing to have an open, honest conversation with a girl about the fact that her changing body type is the reason she is being moved from flyer to base. I think that's a symptom of the problem and not a solution. Covering it up and not discussing it changes nothing.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

I totally get what you are saying. We do have to be careful with our words, but I think we HAVE to be willing to broach the subject. I think that we would have fewer kids with bad body image or eating disorders if we were more willing to have open and honest communication about body type and body image. We are all so afraid of the topic that nothing gets said, so media stereotypes are the only voice kids are hearing. We are so scared of everything you mentioned above that no one is willing to have an open, honest conversation with a girl about the fact that her changing body type is the reason she is being moved from flyer to base. I think that's a symptom of the problem and not a solution. Covering it up and not discussing it changes nothing.

I 100% agree with you. There definitely needs to be an open line of communication for this stuff. But we also should point out all the things that make someone special too. I think there are ways of taking someone out of the air but also complimenting and pointing out their strengths without "covering up" anything or sugar coating it. If I were taken out of the air, I'd want to know why and not have it sugar coated. And if a coach said to me "but your size would be great for basing/backing" or "your talents are needed elsewhere" then I wouldn't be as upset because they are recognizing that I still have a place on the team and that I still have something to contribute to the success of the team. I think a child knows when someone is sugar coating something or acting fake. And I think children know when someone is being sincere when delivering bad news.

My first gym was terrible at this stuff. They were not helpful in body image or self worth issues. They would take someone out of the air and just say "you are too big and can't fly any more." The athlete would then shut down and not give it their all anymore because they felt they weren't good enough at something they thought they were good at. I even had a tumbling coach there who told me straight to my face that I was too fat to ever get my round off backhandspring. That stuck with me for forever. My second gym was much better at these things. When they had to take someone out of the air, take someone off of point or center something, etc, they were quick to show the athlete how they would help the team in their new spot and then point out how much they've improved in their new spot. That has also stuck with me for forever.

I think that's what people are trying to say. It's the attitude of the coach and how you go about it. I'm not saying you are going about it wrong. It sounds like you are being honest with your athletes but you are also nurturing. I think that even if your athletes are taken out of their desired spot, they know you still think highly of them. If you were just telling them honestly what needed to happen but you weren't a nuturing coach, that's where the problems begin.

 

[tbabycheer609]

I had a coach tell me I was too heavy once and then told my mom the same thing. Saying the bases were having a hard time because I weighed more than the other flyers and it was muscle not fat lol. Also this was when I was still hitting stunts consistently I just was a bit rusty with some stuff since I had taken some time off of cheer. My moms response was "well if 3 people can't manage someone who is 110 lbs then that's a conditioning and strength issue not a weight issue".

Cheer can be a ruthless sport sometimes ...I wouldn't put up with that from a coach or anyone else for that matter...and if the director didn't take the complaint seriously I'd be pulling my kid from the program.

I like your mom.

 

[JMW]

This is neither here nor there, but I just saw my cp's pyramid for the first time (HS team), and she - at 5'1/100 pounds, bases the flyer in the center of the pyramid who weighs 130 pounds.

I'm super proud of her! She prefers to base. The flyer is insanely flexible and holds her weight. Granted, they are only at prep level, bracing the main flyers, but it's still a lot of work with everything that's going on!

In any case, I believe that once they reach a certain age and level of maturity/development, even the smallest 3 girls can put up the biggest flyer, if everybody has good technique. It seems to me that that's one of the benefits to a high school team vs. some all-star teams is that everyone is (close to) the same age, and size is less of an issue.

Edited to add I realize these are generalizations and there are exceptions to almost everything I said, so no need to point it out! ;-)

 

[AliciaM]

I like your mom.

Me too haha my mom always stuck up for me I thought she was gonna take out a lady once in a grocery store for hitting me with a cart :/

 

[MOPSMommy1]

Biting my tongue...really hard...

 

[TealShades]

This is neither here nor there, but I just saw my cp's pyramid for the first time (HS team), and she - at 5'1/100 pounds, bases the flyer in the center of the pyramid who weighs 130 pounds.

I'm super proud of her! She prefers to base. The flyer is insanely flexible and holds her weight. Granted, they are only at prep level, bracing the main flyers, but it's still a lot of work with everything that's going on!

In any case, I believe that once they reach a certain age and level of maturity/development, even the smallest 3 girls can put up the biggest flyer, if everybody has good technique. It seems to me that that's one of the benefits to a high school team vs. some all-star teams is that everyone is (close to) the same age, and size is less of an issue.

Edited to add I realize these are generalizations and there are exceptions to almost everything I said, so no need to point it out! ;-)

that's awesome about your cp's part in the pyramid. Maybe she can give a few pointers about basing to those guy bases mentioned earlier.

 

[Pebbles49]

I totally get what you are saying. We do have to be careful with our words, but I think we HAVE to be willing to broach the subject. I think that we would have fewer kids with bad body image or eating disorders if we were more willing to have open and honest communication about body type and body image. We are all so afraid of the topic that nothing gets said, so media stereotypes are the only voice kids are hearing. We are so scared of everything you mentioned above that no one is willing to have an open, honest conversation with a girl about the fact that her changing body type is the reason she is being moved from flyer to base. I think that's a symptom of the problem and not a solution. Covering it up and not discussing it changes nothing.

I totally agree with your statements, I think the parent(s) have a greater power to help a young girl to be more accepting of their body type and I think, having awareness and love for yourself as a person helps a lot. I remember when my daughter was doing gymnastics, at the beginning, the trend was that smaller and powerful gymnasts were judged more favorably, but now, I have seen this trend changed in gymnastics, we have judges, who give higher scores to the taller gymnasts with the longer limbs-- and these taller gymnasts have been able to revolutionize the sport, particularly in the areas of the high bars, balance beam and even on the floor with their gracefulness and even being more flexible on these events... So, in my opinion, I think it is just time that the sport of Cheerleading needs to reassess body type and what is best for each athlete and the team.

To be honest, the male cheerleader is fighting a lot of stereotypes too... Many of our male cheerleaders are not expected to be flyers and if they do not fit a certain body type, particularly being strong, they must be able to do astronomical difficult tumbling passes to be accepted on a team and if a male cheerleader does not fit these categories are sometime treated badly too.... So I think we need cheerleaders who can be more versatile and break away from the stringent ideas of fitting into a certain boxes...

 

[driverto6]

I totally agree with your statements, I think the parent(s) have a greater power to help a young girl to be more accepting of their body type and I think, having awareness and love for yourself as a person helps a lot. I remember when my daughter was doing gymnastics, at the beginning, the trend was that smaller and powerful gymnasts were judged more favorably, but now, I have seen this trend changed in gymnastics, we have judges, who give higher scores to the taller gymnasts with the longer limbs-- and these taller gymnasts have been able to revolutionize the sport, particularly in the areas of the high bars, balance beam and even on the floor with their gracefulness and even being more flexible on these events... So, in my opinion, I think it is just time that the sport of Cheerleading needs to reassess body type and what is best for each athlete and the team.

To be honest, the male cheerleader is fighting a lot of stereotypes too... Many of our male cheerleaders are not expected to be flyers and if they do not fit a certain body type, particularly being strong, they must be able to do astronomical difficult tumbling passes to be accepted on a team and if a male cheerleader does not fit these categories are sometime treated badly too.... So I think we need cheerleaders who can be more versatile and break away from the stringent ideas of fitting into a certain boxes...

Isn't this the same for female cheerleaders? If you aren't a flyer and you aren't particularly strong, then you have to have tremendous tumbling to be on a higher level team. As my daughter has moved up levels, I see more and more of this...girls who aren't flyers, but might be too short or not strong enough to base 2-man stunts...so they work on power tumbling. Good coaches find places for them in the routine...basing in the pyramid, center jumps or dance...otherwise we end up losing these great cheerleaders, because they don't want to only be a tumbling nugget!!

 

[HeatUniqueJ]

We never ever tell our flyers they are ''too heavy'' or ''too big'' . If we decide for whatever reason to put them down they are not getting an explanation it's just how it is and everyone so far could live with that just fine. Of course there are Girls who like to complain because they want to fly ( i still don't understand why everyone always wants so fly lol, it's so scary)
Most of the time the Girls already realize themselves that the Bases are struggeling or things have changed , new tiny Flyers came in or whatever, so there is no need to have us Coaches tell them they are too heavy to fly.

 

[INeverStopCheering]

What about when it isn't for a month or a season...it's forever. How do you tell someone they've permanently outgrown flying?

 

[Momager]

What about when it isn't for a month or a season...it's forever. How do you tell someone they've permanently outgrown flying?

Maybe collaborating with the parent is a good idea. The parent would know if there are issues like ED/ emotional that you need to work around. I would tell my daughter that she has no control over how tall she is or her basic body shape and her body is now best suited for tumbling, holding people up, learning a new skill that better fits her body type. I would talk about change (rather than growth) in body shape and focus on nature rather than behavior (eating, gaining weight) and talk about what skills and talents will be the one she will need to develop now.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Or worse, they take matters into their own hands and DO try to do something about it, and 9 times out of 10 it's done in an unhealthy manner.

I constantly see tweets and posts by cheerleaders about purposely not eating and how they need to lose 20 lbs by majors/NCA/worlds. They start restricting their intake and start a downward spiral that can trigger a full blown eating disorder. The crop tops and cheerlebs famous for their abs put enough pressure on these kid without a coach telling them to lose a few pounds. Or my favorite, the coaches that tell the flyers to make sure they don't indulge on thanksgiving or Christmas because they'll be too heavy. I'd march my kid out of that gym but it happens constantly.

Since there are a few people on the boards who have shared about their EDs I'd be interested to hear your opinions on this topic and what you think the best way to approach the "too big to fly" issue that wouldn't trigger you to go back down that path and into a relapse.

Saw this from a girl on Twitter: "No more food after today, gotta look skinny for comp on Sunday

"