OT Inappropriate Discussions With Athletes

[cheer25mom]

Also... Would YOU feel comfortable telling someone else's kid that they're too big to fly?

I would, and as a dance assistant I have told a girl she was too big for a lift. It was the truth, I needed a smaller, shorter girl. I don't dance around it because I don't think it is anything to hide or be ashamed of. We are all built differently and have different strengths and weaknesses and that is ok. CP's dance teacher is open and honest about it and I really appreciate it. Everyone has a different body type and is suited to different things. CP is to short and stocky to ever be the best jumper in her class. Her teacher is upfront about that and the physical reason for it. She is a beautiful turner however and it is partially due to a low center of gravity. She knows this too. I wish her cheer coaches were more open about it.


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[cheer25mom]

It isn't lying. The child really IS needed as a base. The kid working out in that position really IS valuable. Coaches really DO want the kids to succeed and help the team in their new positions. It really isn't about that particular kid's size - it is ALWAYS about what works best for the team. I never take a kid out of the air because she is too big. I change positions to best fit the team. It isn't ever about one child.

I get that it isn't about one kid, but the relative sizes and abilities of all of them. I would just say that.


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[cheer25mom]

I'm a no-nonsense person like you, @cheer25mom, so I do understand where you're coming from. I think you're absolutely correct in understanding that YOUR child wouldn't appreciate the size issue being danced around. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of having a mother-daughter relationship with the kids I coach, so it's not appropriate for me to make that call.

ETA: The reason I think it's negative is because it's not constructive. There's nothing a child can do to change their size, so why even bother talking about it? I emphasize my need for a strong base because it's something the child can take control of. She can run with that encouragement and make herself the best darn base on the team.

I get where you are coming from, and you have to decide what you are comfortable with, but I do think discussion about size and body type is extremely useful. It helps a kid understand WHY they are struggling with one thing, but another is easy, or WHY they are needed in one position or another. As I said above, I have a short, stocky kid who will never be a pretty jumper or flyer, but knowing this helps her figure out how to compensate and how to use her low center of gravity to her advantage. If everyone was afraid to mention it, she would have no understanding of the mechanics of what was going on and how to fix it. It's also important because it shows that size, weight, and body composition are not something to be ashamed of. We are all different and that us ok. Avoiding it sends the message that there is something to be ashamed of.


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[mollymags]

ETA: The reason I think it's negative is because it's not constructive. There's nothing a child can do to change their size, so why even bother talking about it? I emphasize my need for a strong base because it's something the child can take control of. She can run with that encouragement and make herself the best darn base on the team.

This is a great point and something that I was struggling to put into words. I am 100% behind this mindset.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Does it really fool the kids though? Do they really but into it? I can't see it working with anyone over about 8. I get trying to be positive and yes they will be bummed about being grounded, but I don't see kids being happy about being blatantly lied to and I would think that would cause more problems than it would solve. Like, " why isn't she telling me what I know is true? Does she think I'm fat, but not want to tell me? Does she really think I don't KNOW I'm bigger than all the other flyers?" I would think the thoughts lying to them produces would be more harmful than just telling them in a caring way.


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I have read all of your posts, and from a pathological standpoint those comments are so damaging. Especially to young girls and girls with depressive/disordered self schemas. Even if you mean well, they hear nothing but negativity coming from you (or who happens to be doing the talking). It is how their minds interpret it. In all honesty, those comments are just plain horrible ideas and you never know how a child is going to take them. I can't even imagine what would happen if I were to tell a child they were too big, but I can safely assume I would no longer have a job.


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[cheer25mom]

I have read all of your posts, and from a pathological standpoint those comments are so damaging. Especially to young girls and girls with depressive/disordered self schemas. Even if you mean well, they hear nothing but negativity coming from you (or who happens to be doing the talking). It is how their minds interpret it. In all honesty, those comments are just plain horrible ideas and you never know how a child is going to take them. I can't even imagine what would happen if I were to tell a child they were too big, but I can safely assume I would no longer have a job.


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They never damaged me and haven't damaged my child. I don't think talking about the reality of ones body is damaging. There is a difference between being open honest and frank and being critical and demeaning


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[dawgshow]

They never damaged me and haven't damaged my child. I don't think talking about the reality of ones body is damaging


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It would have to be worded very carefully in order to not negatively impact my middle schooler.

 

[cheer25mom]

It would have to be worded very carefully in order to not negatively impact my middle schooler.

I think that's true if it's the first time it's been discussed, but not if it's always been an open topic of discussion.


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[luv2cheer92]

They never damaged me and haven't damaged my child. I don't think talking about the reality of ones body is damaging. There is a difference between being open honest and frank and being critical and demeaning


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That's great that it works for you and your cp, but it's not going to work for everyone. And I would say that the majority of kids I have worked with wouldn't handle it well, but yes there would be some that I could say that too. One strategy isn't going to work for every kid.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

They never damaged me and haven't damaged my child. I don't think talking about the reality of ones body is damaging


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Then you and your child are blessed with high self-esteem and healthy self schemas. However, your child is not every child. You are not every person. If I were to pull Susie out of the air and told her it was because she was too big to fly, I could have potentially aided in the damage that child's self image.

I don't even allow my friends to say how "fat" they think they are because it's damaging to them as well as to people who hear it. I sure as heck am not going to allow myself to say a similar sounding phrase to a young girl who may or may not be self conscious about her body. Absolutely not.


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[Tosh]

Okay, I'm sorry and you all will probably blast me, but here is my 2 cents.
Yes there is a way to let an athlete (of any sport) know that their weight/size will not work for a specific roll. The way this is done is up to the informer and it should be done in an appropriate manner. However, as a competitive cheerleader at the age of 14+, no one should have to tell you your weight is becoming an issue. As a competitive athlete you should know if you are too big to fly with your current team. I put it this way because it does depend on the resources of the team you are on, the flyer can not be the biggest person in the stunt group......
I like the idea of approaching a stunt group and just saying, at practice tonight, we will try so-and-so as a flyer and see how she does. As the flyer being replaced you should already know and accept what it is all about and want what is best for your team. I am speaking from the view point of a parent. My daughter was always tiny and still is, however is was 100% muscle by the time she was a senior and she was able to look at the girls coming up on her squad and knew there is no way these smaller girls will get her up in the air, no matter how good she is as a flyer with holding her weight etc., she was just too big for her fellow team mates. So she went to her coach and asked to workout with some of the stunt groups over the summer as a base. When the season started she was baseing and she was a good base because she prepared, learned and practiced being a base eventhough the only thing she's ever done since 1st grade was fly.....
We can not loose ourselves in the politically correct way of doing things and loose the essence of it. We also have to be prepared to grow and be more diverse. Learning to base was a plus, she was able to base her senior year and when she tried out for college she did it as a base and flyer. It is always better to have more than one skill.....
We have to talk about these things especially if we care about these kids, do not give them false expectations, we just have to do it in a respectful and caring manner.

 

[cheer25mom]

Then you and your child are blessed with high self-esteem and healthy self schemas. However, your child is not every child. You are not every person. If I were to pull Susie out of the air and told her it was because she was too big to fly, I could have potentially aided in the damage that child's self image.

I don't even allow my friends to say how "fat" they think they are because it's damaging to them as well as to people who hear it. I sure as heck am not going to allow myself to say a similar sounding phrase to a young girl who may or may not be self conscious about her body. Absolutely not.


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so you don't think it would help the self-esteem of young girls to be open and honest about the fact that everybody's body is different from the beginning? Why does a conversation about body type and it's effect on cheer dance or whatever have to be negative? Is it always damaging to a child's self esteem to be realistic about body type? I don't think it should be. I think we as adults need to set up a situation where it's okay to discuss body types without judgement. No girl should ever have to feel like she is less because of her body type, and by making it a taboo subject we are perpetuating that.



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[omgitssydthekid]

so you don't think it would help the self-esteem of young girls to be open and honest about the fact that everybody's body is different from the beginning? Why does a conversation about body type and it's effect on cheer dance or whatever have to be negative? Is it always damaging to a child's self esteem to be realistic about body type? I don't think it should be. I think we as adults need to set up a situation where it's okay to discuss body types without judgement. No girl should ever have to feel like she is less because of her body type, and by making it a taboo subject we are perpetuating that.



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I'm stating psychological facts. A girl with a disordered or depressive self schema is going to take those comments very hard. You can not always tell who these kids are. Why risk it? It's not necessary and it's not worth it. And it's negative because you're telling a girl, that something she can not change is not good enough. And in saying that, she hears that she is not good enough. So maybe "sugar coating" is lying but I'd rather open the situation up in a positive light and not have children hate themselves or their bodies, because it does happen.


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[cheer25mom]

I'm stating psychological facts. A girl with a disordered or depressive self schema is going to take those comments very hard. You can not always tell who these kids are. Why risk it? It's not necessary and it's not worth it. And it's negative because you're telling a girl, that something she can not change is not good enough. And in saying that, she hears that she is not good enough. So maybe "sugar coating" is lying but I'd rather open the situation up in a positive light and not have children hate themselves or their bodies, because it does happen.


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That's just the point it NOT telling her she is not good enough. It shouldn't be about that at all. I think we would have fewer disordered kids if we were more open honest and frank. It shouldn't be made taboo or shameful.


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[omgitssydthekid]

That's just the point it NOT telling her she is not good enough. It shouldn't be about that at all. I think we would have fewer disordered kids i more open honest and frank


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A child with a negative self schema is going to filter EVERYTHING said to them through that and it will become negative. And I mean everything. If you tell that child that their body type is too big, they will shut down and are likely to become very depressed. Damage like that takes years of counseling to resolve. I sure wouldn't want that blood on my hands. I coach because I love the kids and the sport, I'm not trying to ruin a child's body image.


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