All-Star Masculine Male?

[King]

Why? I dont see what I have done to deserve having my account deleted?
Ive done nothing but post about things related to cheer.

Isnt that the point

correct, but you are getting a bit too big for your britches.

 

[King]

wow someone is getting mighty upset over nothing at all. I don't think King is the person to tell "don't like how i'm using it? don't read my threads." It was actually really rude.

Seems as though things are being taken very personal when they shouldn't be at all. You opened a can of worms when the threads were made and now this is how things are playing out. Didn't want to hear the things people are saying? Easy fix, don't make threads.

Ps. The tattoo thread is in the random section, where it has been, not in the all star section.

after i moved it.

 

[onetrupairing]

correct, but you are getting a bit too big for your britches.

By doing what? Asking for help? Or asking for opinions?

I have no qualms that I am a strictly average cheerleader.

 

[King]

By doing what? Asking for help? Or asking for opinions?

I have no qualms that I am a strictly average cheerleader.

being an average cheerleader doesnt matter. some of the brightest and best coaches may never have actually been that good at the skills (and some of the most skilled people are not good coaches.. true in any sport). if you have an opinion that is educated and worth while, then id be welcome to read it.

but you are a bit on your high horse about the NACCC talking about masculine and effeminate males. while I have disagreements with a good portion of the opinions that go on there the last thing you want to do is go bashing a group who truly does value every boy in this sport. they are trying to help improve the amount of participation of males. it would be quite wrong to say male cheerleading doesnt carry a stigma that scares a lot of boys away. to say it is their problem makes you the problem. being so proud of oneself that you ostracize others isnt helping anyone.

this is one time where you are just wrong.

 

[onetrupairing]

being an average cheerleader doesnt matter. some of the brightest and best coaches may never have actually been that good at the skills (and some of the most skilled people are not good coaches.. true in any sport). if you have an opinion that is educated and worth while, then id be welcome to read it.

but you are a bit on your high horse about the NACCC talking about masculine and effeminate males. while I have disagreements with a good portion of the opinions that go on there the last thing you want to do is go bashing a group who truly does value every boy in this sport. they are trying to help improve the amount of participation of males. it would be quite wrong to say male cheerleading doesnt carry a stigma that scares a lot of boys away. to say it is their problem makes you the problem. being so proud of oneself that you ostracize others isnt helping anyone.

this is one time where you are just wrong.

I believe my opinion was "Why is how a boy acts on the floor even an issue? If a boy wants to shimmy/snap/wmh after a tumbling pass, let them.
If they wanna fist bump, let them."

I dont care how boys act on the floor. And I dont think NACCC should either. Im fine with "masculine" boys in cheer. Hell im all for it.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

Here's the issue with how boys look on the floor, and I believe if you listen a little harder to the NACCC conference, and maybe take a second or two to read in between a few lines, you would realize this, but as always, selective hearing takes over.
Boys acting, as Jamie said, all "flamin' around, hair whippin' cutie booty"on the floor is something that will DISCOURAGE other boys from coming into this sport. Look at our Youth and Junior divisions, we don't have the boys coming up from those divisions to continue in coed divisions, especially not large coed, and medium coed would then only exist with very large gyms that have always had the luck of getting boys. So as you say, boys enrolling in the sport is of course going to up and down, and yes, you may be right, but at the same time, if a coach of a decently new gym (maybe 3-6 years) looks to the future and imagines having his medium coed or large coed team, taking them to Worlds, etc. where is he going to find the athletes? First I'm sure he'd look at the kids who will eventually age up, or who will be senior eligible around the time he is assuming this will happen, and when you realize that you only have one boy on J5, he's 4'9, can tumble and dance his little butt off but has never done anything but fourth a stunt, you have to look towards recruitment. There is where the problem lies, you will not recruit guys who view a masculine role in this sport as feminine. That's the simple fact. I'm gay, I love to dance and jump and do motions, but I can see how if I'm hair flippin', shimmying, and shakin' my butt all at the same time when I land my pass, someone is going to assume that I was told to do that, and that their role on the team would be to do just that, and to hair flip, shimmy, and booty shake all day long is a turn off to the average masculinity-obsessed male.

If that doesn't at least open your eyes a pinch, I'm sure we can all call this a day.

 

[Ashley]

I believe my opinion was "Why is how a boy acts on the floor even an issue? If a boy wants to shimmy/snap/wmh after a tumbling pass, let them.
If they wanna fist bump, let them."

I dont care how boys act on the floor. And I dont think NACCC should either. Im fine with "masculine" boys in cheer. Hell im all for it.

I don't think NACCC was trying to regulate anything or say that boys should have to act more masculine. That wasn't an issue that was up for debate. I think a couple of coaches were sharing their personal preference while discussing the decline of men in our sport. And it comes down to whether or not you believe that the number of boys will naturally ebb and flow (and that right now we're in an ebb) or whether or not it's a trend that's in a downward slope and will continue to do so. Personally, I think it's the latter. I think we're losing boys, not because it's a recession, but because they're being scared away by some stigma. I come from college cheerleading, I never did all-stars until I started cheering on an open team. And the number of coed teams in college is shrinking, and on those teams the boys are different. They used to be the football player/wrestler types that wanted to keep active once they got to college and couldn't do their sport of choice. But now they're boys that came from all-star cheerleading. Which isn't necessarily a problem, but most of those boys can't partner stunt. And I'm not talking about a toss hands or extension, toss libs, full ups, etc. The fact of the matter is most "feminine" type boys can't do those skills. I say most, not all, because I competed a 2-1-1 lib one year on a guy who is probably the most feminine gay guy you will ever meet in your life.

Anyway, so now we think we have this problem. And the coaches who attended the NACCC meeting think the decline in boys isn't just a temporary low. So they want to figure out how to fix it. That's all the discussion was about - not how to get rid of "feminine" boys who want to shimmy, but how to bring back the football player type boys. And some of those coaches might believe that they're being scared away by those same boys who want to shimmy or hair flip or whatever. But that doesn't mean that they're advocating telling boys they can't do any of that, they're just stating that it's not their preference for boys on the mat. Just like some people don't like seeing guys in the air, and some people don't like when cheerleaders wear shorts instead of skirts because that's tradition or whatever.

Look, all Kingston was saying is that if you're going to start a conversation topic - and I think this was a very interesting one - you can't take it so personally if people don't agree with you. It's not a personal attack and people will debate with you. Personally, I don't like when boys shimmy, and I didn't like it last year when there was that one boy on the team who would cover himself in glitter and high kick when he took the mat. But that's just my preference because I come from college cheerleading. I don't think that anyone should tell you what you can or can't do other than your coach.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

also I would like to point out, they were also discussing how to push for more reward for coed style stunting, because currently it is not a section of the scoresheet. I don't think anyone has brought that up.

 

[King]

also I would like to point out, they were also discussing how to push for more reward for coed style stunting, because currently it is not a section of the scoresheet. I don't think anyone has brought that up.

there wasnt time. we were off getting too upset by something that didnt really happen.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

there wasnt time. we were off getting too upset by something that didnt really happen.

I realize the subject was not thoroughly discussed, but to say that the NACCC was just out to eliminate this type of boy isn't true, I just wanted to point out that a few times were mentioned the need for reward for coed stunting, making more of a reason for any type of boy to learn at least the basics of this stunting, if that makes sense!

 

[King]

I realize the subject was not thoroughly discussed, but to say that the NACCC was just out to eliminate this type of boy isn't true, I just wanted to point out that a few times were mentioned the need for reward for coed stunting, making more of a reason for any type of boy to learn at least the basics of this stunting, if that makes sense!

a voice of reason around here? weird.

 

[kristenthegreat]

..I just read this thread and think of my open team. We had about 3 guys- one of the hair flip/shimmy variety and two of the more masculine variety (one was an ex-gymnast/trick athlete and the other was an ex-football player? who picked up stunting/tumbling). I'll never forget the day of dance choreo when we were trying to teach the two latter guys the hip-shaking movements for the dance. I chuckle everytime I think about it..they actually got really into it. But I don't know how they felt about doing it during competition..I never asked.

 

[King]

..I just read this thread and think of my open team. We had about 3 guys- one of the hair flip/shimmy variety and two of the more masculine variety (one was an ex-gymnast/trick athlete and the other was an ex-football player? who picked up stunting/tumbling). I'll never forget the day of dance choreo when we were trying to teach the two latter guys the hip-shaking movements for the dance. I chuckle everytime I think about it..they actually got really into it. But I don't know how they felt about doing it during competition..I never asked.

to me, that is cheerleading. having different people who are role players.

not everyone on the football team is the same shape and size. linemen are different than receivers are different than QB's are different than kickers.

 

[Ashley]

to me, that is cheerleading. having different people who are role players.

not everyone on the football team is the same shape and size. linemen are different than receivers are different than QB's are different than kickers.

And someone has to be in the back row for the dance!

 

[chyeeaaa69]

And someone has to be in the back row for the dance!

and you always have to have that one TERRIBLE dancer that screws up the whole dance, but enjoys themselves more than you could ever imagine..