All-Star The 'right' Level

[CoachTamara]

I think sometime people don't realize that to be a level 5 (or whatever level) you need to have both the stunting and tumbling skills for that level. It may be great that you have some fierce tick tocks and kick doubles but if half of your athletes are throwing running passes to tuck then you shouldn't be a level 5.

Personally, I'd rather move down a level then make a fool of myself with a routine that's too hard.

I was SHOCKED at how many layouts I saw at Worlds. I saw one girl throw standing BHS BHS tuck and eat it. I understand these teams want to go to worlds, and maybe join divisions that are smaller so they can say they made finals but come on. It is one thing to have a bad day, and another to trick parents and kids into thinking they belong at worlds with a tuck. This might be my biggest pet peeve.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

I was SHOCKED at how many layouts I saw at Worlds. I saw one girl throw standing BHS BHS tuck and eat it. I understand these teams want to go to worlds, and maybe join divisions that are smaller so they can say they made finals but come on. It is one thing to have a bad day, and another to trick parents and kids into thinking they belong at worlds with a tuck. This might be my biggest pet peeve.

Just because I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt before I know the facts, maybe some got injured before worlds and she got pulled up?

 

[CoachTamara]

Just because I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt before I know the facts, maybe some got injured before worlds and she got pulled up?

She was one of entire line that did this.

I understand one kid, or even a handful of awesome bases that aren't great tumblers... Whatever, that's great. I have kids that will never tumble, and I don't think they should be held back by ONE aspect of the scoresheet. But, I am not a worlds team. And I'm going to say it-I'm judging you for sending out a team with layouts and acting like you are awesome at worlds. I think too many coaches are focused on "we are going to worlds!" instead of "how can I make sure each child on this team is set up to succeed?".

 

[in10sityNY]

We moved 16 of our 20 Junior level 3 kids up to the Junior level 4 team this year and added 2 from level 2 and a few joined from other gyms. But only 2 girls out of 25 kids has ever competed level 4. Our kids have definitely had our struggles and we have talked about moving to level 3 but we are going to wait it out. The kids are really surprising us. Last night they ran full out tumbling and almost everything landed. They have hit all stunts in the routine, just not all together. This is in no way going to be an "EASY" season for them. They have to work their butts off. Every Friday and/or Saturday they bring their stunt groups in to perfect the main stunt and each of them takes at least 1 extra tumbling class/private a week. We are going to see how they do with the pressure of competition at the first 2 or 3 and then go from there. It is so much more stressful then coaching the Senior 4 team that I have been coaching for 3 years because even though we get a few new kids every year, it isn't the whole team competing at a new level. We have moved a team down a level midseason but not since 2008. Wish us luck! I think they can do it

 

[12stepCheermom]

Yeah, I feel like it gives gyms pride saying oh we have a senior 5 team, but they really should be a level 4. Then they become known as that gym with the sketchy level 5 instead of that gym with the amazing level 4. And it probably is a pride killer (for lack of better words) to move down, but it's in the best interest of the athletes. I've been on that team that doesn't have too hot of a season (Not because of level issues, but because of people quitting & lack of commitment) and it SUCKS.

Absolutely agree with everything you said.

 

[12stepCheermom]

She was one of entire line that did this.

I understand one kid, or even a handful of awesome bases that aren't great tumblers... Whatever, that's great. I have kids that will never tumble, and I don't think they should be held back by ONE aspect of the scoresheet. But, I am not a worlds team. And I'm going to say it-I'm judging you for sending out a team with layouts and acting like you are awesome at worlds. I think too many coaches are focused on "we are going to worlds!" instead of "how can I make sure each child on this team is set up to succeed?".

THIS!

 

[RaRaMama]

I think sometime people don't realize that to be a level 5 (or whatever level) you need to have both the stunting and tumbling skills for that level. It may be great that you have some fierce tick tocks and kick doubles but if half of your athletes are throwing running passes to tuck then you shouldn't be a level 5.

Personally, I'd rather move down a level then make a fool of myself with a routine that's too hard.

A to the Freakin MEN!

 

[CheerDadof2]

Team levels seem to always be such a sore subject for teams, coaches, CP's and parents. Here are my two cents, for what it's worth.

1 - Any team should compete at the highest level that, for lack of better way of putting it, the weakest person on the team can compete at. That means if you can only do a full team BHS then go L2, regardless if you have a handful of tucks or layouts, what have you. <- this is more common for smaller gyms that have less kids to field teams

2 - Saying you have a Worlds level team that's never won a major competition (Cheersport,NCA or UCA Nationals) but gets an at-large bid to worlds - doesn't mean a whole lot other then you want to say you have a Worlds team when IMO you really don't

3 - I will say I like how new gym is doing it - all teams are set at largest common denominator, if you're lacking you either had to get the skill by the end of the summer or move down. If you progressed all summer you could challenge and move up. All season long the teams work to progress their skills and if as a team they've all progressed they can compete at the higher level choose to do so at the last competition of the season.

 

[PullandPray23]

Let us be realistic...parents don't fork over 2500+ for their child to be on an average team that doesn't win. I mean cheer builds confidence, team work, athletic ability, and (mostly unlike those panthers who set lawns on fire Im kidding of course) keeps kids outta trouble. but that I think can be overlooked if you end a season jacketless. I think "we gain as a team and lose as a team" I say gain because if everyone is gaining skills then overall the team is gaining the ability to be competitive in a certain level. and obviously we all know what losing is. but long story short I believe that just because susie has a full and triple toe back does not mean its mandatory for her to be on a level 5 team...she could be fabulous on a 4 or even a 3 Im mean an NCA jacket looks the same 1-5 why not stack your odds in your favor a bit more through great execution and level appropriate difficulty. just my 2 cents....( ACEDAD ...did I use that last expression right...i don't want it to be the vain of existence...again )

 

[Mo-Lissa]

This subject pulls my heart strings.... so lets flip the coin.
What do you do with the 6 kids at your gym TRUE level 5 that work their buts off, put many years into allstars, sorry you can't do your arabian thru double or standing full, tick tics, ect... because "Suzi" only has a tuck so we will be level 3 this year. How many years can a small gym of 70 some allstars stay open not producing a team to go to the Almighty Worlds??? What do you really care if we have a level 5 team that has a lot of heart, a good clean routine, that is enjoyable to watch, showcase our level 5 kids and give the babies in our program heroes in their mind to look up to??? Go get a drink, snack or go to the bathroom when we take the floor. I pray for that
at-large bid, and the chance my daughter takes that Worlds stage. Why does she deserve it less than anyone else?

 

[CheerBank]

This subject pulls my heart strings.... so lets flip the coin.
What do you do with the 6 kids at your gym TRUE level 5 that work their buts off, put many years into allstars, sorry you can't do your arabian thru double or standing full, tick tics, ect... because "Suzi" only has a tuck so we will be level 3 this year. How many years can a small gym of 70 some allstars stay open not producing a team to go to the Almighty Worlds??? What do you really care if we have a level 5 team that has a lot of heart, a good clean routine, that is enjoyable to watch, showcase our level 5 kids and give the babies in our program heroes in their mind to look up to??? Go get a drink, snack or go to the bathroom when we take the floor. I pray for that
at-large bid, and the chance my daughter takes that Worlds stage. Why does she deserve it less than anyone else?

I completely understand what you are saying - why should anyone else care if your gym takes it's Level 5 team to Worlds with an at-large bid - because you are happy she is there and able to perform her Level 5 skills that she has worked so hard to master. Kudos to your cp, and I mean that sincerely.
My cp is 12 and on a jr 3. We hope that at some point in her cheer life she will be on a level 5 that gets a bid to Worlds. However, having previously been at a gym that that sent a janky Level 5 team with an at-large default bid to Worlds (default because the 4-5 teams in front of them all had their bids already and there was no one else to give it to at that comp) imho it's a lot of money for a whole lot of ugly. It's definitely a dream to send a team to Worlds for many gyms, but when that janky level 5 stepped on the mat and looked like a barely janky level 4 that day, it was not pretty.
I don't think there is anything wrong with sending a true level 5 team to Worlds that may not get out of prelims as long as they are a true level 5. But 6 kids cannot turn a level 3 or level 4 team into a true level 5 no matter how much heart they have or how much fun their good, clean routine is to watch. I know I would not want my cp to spend countless hours and a lot of money to be competing on a team that just cannot be competitive just for the sake of saying she is on a level 5 team. I just asked my cp and she said she would rather be on a powerhouse Level 4 that dominated everywhere than a janky Level 5 even if it meant never competing at Worlds because that janky Level 5 should never go to Worlds. If her gym has a true Level 5, though, that is of course what she would want.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Let us be realistic...parents don't fork over 2500+ for their child to be on an average team that doesn't win. I mean cheer builds confidence, team work, athletic ability, and (mostly unlike those panthers who set lawns on fire Im kidding of course) keeps kids outta trouble. but that I think can be overlooked if you end a season jacketless. I think "we gain as a team and lose as a team" I say gain because if everyone is gaining skills then overall the team is gaining the ability to be competitive in a certain level. and obviously we all know what losing is. but long story short I believe that just because susie has a full and triple toe back does not mean its mandatory for her to be on a level 5 team...she could be fabulous on a 4 or even a 3 Im mean an NCA jacket looks the same 1-5 why not stack your odds in your favor a bit more through great execution and level appropriate difficulty. just my 2 cents....( ACEDAD ...did I use that last expression right...i don't want it to be the vain of existence...again )

THIS!

Let me be clear. I'm not about stacking a team and sandbagging a division. But just because half of your kids on a team have (let's just say level 3) skills, doesn't mean the TEAM has those skills. I'm a big believer that you should compete at the level EVERY kid on your team can compete at and you'll be successful of a portion of them are actually working a level up.

Then, instead of just being excited everyone "has" a running tuck, you get squad tumbling by putting the ones who only have a handspring tuck, in a handspring tuck and the ones working up become your specialty passes. Which is way better than squad handspring tuck you hope everyone actually hits because it's new to some athletes.

Maybe it's just because I'm old and mature as a cheer mom these days, but I don't have an issue if my kid has a layout and is on that L3 team because only half of them have layouts. I'd rather the team be level 3 until they ALL have layouts and my kids not be disappointed over and over for just coming up short. Maybe it's petty, but I'm Paying over 5K this year (two cheerleaders) whose only gosl is a cheersport jacket.

I'm not excited about paying 5K for them to not be set up for success. If they bust on their own that's one thing, but if the team was never designed to be competitive at that level because it's in the wrong division to stroke people's ego about themselves or their kid...that's something VERY different. Mine don't have an ego like that. They just want to win and like you said...it's not like the jacket says what level you are...If that even matters.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

I honestly hate when teams push for a certain level, especially level 5 if the team really only has true level 4 skills. I'd rather be on a kick butt level 4 team than an awful level 5 team!

I also hate when gyms stack their teams . This mostly pertains to small gyms. For example, half of a senior 4 team crossing over to a senior 2 team. It just isn't fair to the true level 2 kids who work their butt off. Or if a small gym has, say, 80 kids, that could make about 3-4 teams with no crossovers. then that gym has 6 or 7 teams. I don't think that's necessary

 

[cupieqt]

I honestly hate when teams push for a certain level, especially level 5 if the team really only has true level 4 skills. I'd rather be on a kick butt level 4 team than an awful level 5 team!

I also hate when gyms stack their teams . This mostly pertains to small gyms. For example, half of a senior 4 team crossing over to a senior 2 team. It just isn't fair to the true level 2 kids who work their butt off. Or if a small gym has, say, 80 kids, that could make about 3-4 teams with no crossovers. then that gym has 6 or 7 teams. I don't think that's necessary

We have 83 kids and 7 teams. We have 4 crossovers bc we needed to fill out our Sr level 1. No stacking here. All our teams are small with 10-15 kids each. Tinys has 7.
ETA: I could have had larger teams but then they would have been filled with kids on incorrect levels.

 

[12stepCheermom]

This subject pulls my heart strings.... so lets flip the coin.
What do you do with the 6 kids at your gym TRUE level 5 that work their buts off, put many years into allstars, sorry you can't do your arabian thru double or standing full, tick tics, ect... because "Suzi" only has a tuck so we will be level 3 this year. How many years can a small gym of 70 some allstars stay open not producing a team to go to the Almighty Worlds??? What do you really care if we have a level 5 team that has a lot of heart, a good clean routine, that is enjoyable to watch, showcase our level 5 kids and give the babies in our program heroes in their mind to look up to??? Go get a drink, snack or go to the bathroom when we take the floor. I pray for that
at-large bid, and the chance my daughter takes that Worlds stage. Why does she deserve it less than anyone else?

Then that gym should have the integrity to look out for those kids before themselves and help them get to the place where that can truly excel and be successful until they've built enough of a program under them to legitimately take their own team. And some small gyms may not ever get to that place but I've seen coaches here on this board that are content with having that smaller program that specifically feeds their occasional true level 5 to a bigger name gym in the area that can continue to push them.

Maybe it's the educator in me and not the business man...but this SHOULD be about doing what's right for kids and taking a team that barely squeaked into worlds on a leftover at large with only 6 true level athletes to get emotionally smacked down by the spectacle of the caliber of teams that will actually be there doesn't strike me as something that is going to be a self-esteem boosting "worlds experience."