All-Star When Should A Skill Be Warned Vs When A Full Deduction Should Be Given?

[King]

When do you think a safety judge should just issue a warning and when should they deduct the full amount?

I am discussing with @Andre and he was discussing within his safety group and was curious about other peoples opinions.

 

[DaniV]

I know some judges will give warnings when it was not "intentional" but it is not consistent across comps and judges.

I think teams that are given a warning on day 1 or in the warm-up room should defintely get a deduction on the floor or day 2 regardless of whether it was intentional. They were given the option to hit it or fix it and given proper notice that the way it was performed in warm-ups is in violation

 

[King]

I know some judges will give warnings when it was not "intentional" but it is not consistent across comps and judges.

I think teams that are given a warning on day 1 or in the warm-up room should defintely get a deduction on the floor or day 2 regardless of whether it was intentional. They were given the option to hit it or fix it and given proper notice that the way it was performed in warm-ups is in violation

What if they did the exact same skill a week ago at another competition and were already warned. So that coach made an active choice to keep in the illegal skill?

 

[DaniV]

@King that is an excellent point... how would you keep track of warnings between different EP's though? I could maybe see it being possible to track (but a logistical nightmare and would probably involve the hiring of more staff just to police this) within a specific EP.

I guess the only way to prevent that from happening would be to have a safety judge watching warm-ups and you would need to show them all of your skills/routine full-out (like they did at Summit) so they could approve them before moving on to compete. That way, warnings could be issued in warm-ups and then would be required to be fixed by the competition floor where only deductions are given - no warnings. But again, what happens when a safety judge misses it in warm-ups?

 

[NEliteSteven]

Safety judges need to be in warm-ups at all competitions to check for intentional legalities. If it isn't caught in warmup, it shouldn't be deducted. If a performance error makes a stunt illegal, it should be a warning on Day 1, and a deduction on Day 2.

 

[CoachTamara]

What if they did the exact same skill a week ago at another competition and were already warned. So that coach made an active choice to keep in the illegal skill?

We've been warned on a level 1 skill we've done at each comp, and it has been deemed legal. However, we've been told that we'll probably get warned at every comp because it has the potential to become illegal if performed wrong and judges haven't seen it before. A warning does not mean the skill was illegal in my experience, so you can warn me all you want but it's staying in.

There is usually a clear difference between a mistake and a clear breaking of the rules. For example, if a prep is not connected properly for a skill that requires it, it's usually a mistake vs. no prep going up anywhere near it because the coaches are idiots and don't know the rules.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

Safety judges need to be in warm-ups at all competitions to check for intentional legalities. If it isn't caught in warmup, it shouldn't be deducted. If a performance error makes a stunt illegal, it should be a warning on Day 1, and a deduction on Day 2.

Should a team be required to perform their whole stunt sequence/pyramid/tumbling elemnt in front of a safety judge in warm ups on a specified mat or should safety judges just walk around and look/take notes? I like your idea of placing them in the warm up area. I think it'd be neat to see competitions have "legality run-throughs" during warm ups. Extra time to watch for legality issues for judges and extra warm up for teams, theoretically it'd be a win-win for both sides.

 

[CoachTamara]

Shouldn't you know about legalities before going into the comp? We send all of our stunts in to verify legality, and bring proof with us. I guess to me this is simply a part of the job of being a coach and putting a routine on the floor...

 

[alexacheer2010]

Shouldn't you know about legalities before going into the comp? We send all of our stunts in to verify legality, and bring proof with us. I guess to me this is simply a part of the job of being a coach and putting a routine on the floor...

ALL COACHES SHOULD BE LIKE YOU! my team got disqualified at final destination 4 years ago (we would've won by 10 points!) we were devastated and our coaches "didn't know it was illegal" whatever we did.


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[Cheeranswers]

ALL COACHES SHOULD BE LIKE YOU! my team got disqualified at final destination 4 years ago (we would've won by 10 points!) we were devastated and our coaches "didn't know it was illegal" whatever we did.


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same! so frustrating

 

[uhhlyssa01]

I feel like warnings are for two things: At the beginning of the season when some skills are illegal but kind of in a grey area. If the safety judge has to watch it again on video, it should be a warning. I also think warnings should be given throughout the year when skills aren't necessarily illegal, but have the potential to become illegal. Sure they may get the same warning at every competition, but who knows if they didn't just added that skill that week..

If a skill is obviously illegal (it needs to be taken out completely) or requires a big change to make legal (i.e. you need an entire extra person for a stunt LDT, or added stunt group for pyramid) it should be given a full deduction.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

ALL COACHES SHOULD BE LIKE YOU! my team got disqualified at final destination 4 years ago (we would've won by 10 points!) we were devastated and our coaches "didn't know it was illegal" whatever we did.


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My team got disqualified once because a skill in our pyramid was legal for UCA but illegal for our HS State competition rules. It sucked. We sat all through awards and by first place they hadn't said our team so we were like omg we got first (super shocked since we had a fall) but then they called someone else (who we didn't even know was in our division) and we were so confused on why we didn't even get a place.

 

[glitterandbows]

At a high school competition my team goes to, the first thing you do in the warm up room is go to safety check, where you run through all of the stunts in your routine in front of a safety judge. After you do that, you move on to the next warm up mat. We saw a team in front of us get called for a safety violation, they had to change their stunt sequence during warm ups.

 

[King]

If something is inherently illegal I want it called every time, no warning. If a skill could become illegal a warning is good. While it sucks to be called illegal, getting something called early in the season sucks much less than getting called at the end.

 

[XtremeWpg]

When we've had day 1 & day 2 competitions, the warning has been issued on day 1, if there's no change, its an illegal skill deduction on day 2. Sometimes though, nothing changes and we've had coaches put standing fulls in a level 4.2 routine on both days, which was special.

I think it's absolutely up to the coaches to know their rules. My team asked me if they could work on a pump front full for their level 6 routine. I rattled off the flipping dismount rules so fast their heads spun. Seeing as that is you *job* you should at least know how to Google USASF rules and look it up.