All-Star What Is This Rule Proposal About The Usasf Age Change

[MavsEmma12]

I do not know if this is appropriate to this thread, but I could think of another thread besides the random cheerleading questions thread to put it in. Could a group of Eleven year olds (all still youth aged) compete in the Junior or Senior Division( the whole team still age-eligible to be in the Youth division)?I'm not saying they should, but is it legal? I can't think of a rule against it....

 

[dawgshow]

What if you can't field a J5? A 12 year old with a standing full and Arabian through to double (they do exist in small numbers) would be bored on a j4 and maybe even regress unless parents are paying for extra privates on .

I don't see this as a given, though. For example when I was in middle school I read and wrote at a senior+ level and did math at an 11th grade level. I was not able to push into older grades because, well, I was too young. I was bored to tears but used those years to work on other skills. I see the above scenario similarly. Just because you CAN do skill X, doesn't mean that you GET to do skill X. I see this on non-L5 teams. Kids have a component or two of a higher team but overall are needed on a lower team so that's where they are placed.

I think that many are focusing in the statistically small % of kids that CAN do higher skills, instead of the kids that are placed on higher/older teams because of convenience.

I do agree that credentialing will help with that.

 

[JuniorFusionFire]

I do not know if this is appropriate to this thread, but I could think of another thread besides the random cheerleading questions thread to put it in. Could a group of Eleven year olds (all still youth aged) compete in the Junior or Senior Division( the whole team still age-eligible to be in the Youth division)?I'm not saying they should, but is it legal? I can't think of a rule against it....

If this logic is true, then surely, yes (with the exception of Senior 5). And I guess, this is where the problem lies. So much ambiguity in the divisions one is supposed To enter. In this scenario, the 11yo team won't do themselves any good competing upwards in ages. So THIS is why making definite age ranges would make sense, but for this to work, it would make better sense To take the AVERAGE of the athletes' ages instead of simply going by the oldest athlete (of course, with the exception of Senior 5 teams. But of couse, more problems will be caused.

P.s.- this issue doesn't deeply affect me, but as an observer, I find it really interesting, and thus my mind flows with a ton of thoughts

 

[12stepCheermom]

I don't see this as a given, though. For example when I was in middle school I read and wrote at a senior+ level and did math at an 11th grade level. I was not able to push into older grades because, well, I was too young. I was bored to tears but used those years to work on other skills. I see the above scenario similarly. Just because you CAN do skill X, doesn't mean that you GET to do skill X. I see this on non-L5 teams. Kids have a component or two of a higher team but overall are needed on a lower team so that's where they are placed.

I think that many are focusing in the statistically small % of kids that CAN do higher skills, instead of the kids that are placed on higher/older teams because of convenience.

I do agree that credentialing will help with that.

I think I'm only focused there because I can't be objective about this issue. I agree it's an uber small group of kids who are legit at that age, I just think it's incredibly unfortunate they're getting the shaft in this.

 

[dawgshow]

I think I'm only focused there because I can't be objective about this issue. I agree it's an uber small group of kids who are legit at that age, I just think it's incredibly unfortunate they're getting the shaft in this.

Yep. I agree with you there.

 

[Aussiekat]

Another perspective… most often the kids you see living in the gym are 10-14 yrs old (doing 2/3 privates a week, tumble class and practice). They don't have a lot of outside interests yet… boys, friends, excessive amounts of homework, their whole world IS cheer. The great thing about being on a worlds team at 12 is that you learn to understand the pressures of elite competition without a lot of other consequences- grades suffering, losing friends from a lack of time for a social life. By the time you get to high school, worlds cheer practice is a schedule you are used to, and you can worry about all the other things in life that are changing.

 

[mecheermom]

I get what some of you are saying if the child has the skills and physical and mental maturity, but why the rush for your child to be on a senior worlds team. Why is it not enough for your 12 year old to be on a Junior 5 or competitive Junior 4 team?

#bringbackourJuniordivisions

Because there are 7-9 year olds on j5 and j4 teams. A 12 year old flyer on a junior team is at the same disadvantage as a 15 yr old flyer on a senior team.

If they want to set minimum ages then do it for all levels. Why is it ok to put 6 year old on a youth team with 11 year olds or 8 yr olds with 14 yr olds on a jr team, but not ok to put 12 yr olds with 18 yr olds?

Eta- I agree jr aged kids should be w jr aged kids. I just don't get the argument applying solely to senior worlds teams. I would love for my CP to be on a jr team as long as possible. I am in no rush for worlds. She may be but not me!

 

[tumbleyoda]

@tumbleyoda What is your take on changing the age limits?

I agree 100 percent with what you have posted @Kris. In an industry that has created skills that almost mandate using the smaller sized and often younger aged fliers to do the transitional work the score sheet requires, what happens when you eliminate the ability to put them on the team when they do have the true skill to be on that team? When you are already struggling to find a good fit for them? Small gyms struggle enough just to field level appropriate teams, then being told they have to compete against gyms that can stack crossovers to the ceiling or sandbag an entire team in a division. The competitions they could once go to in order to groom their program are constantly being bought out by the monopoly and being priced out of their range or shut down completely. Then told they didn't try hard enough or their coaches simply aren't good enough.:banghead: Altering the age limit would be another major blow to these gyms

It would definitely hurt our gym. We would adjust, but it would hurt. While we came up with an answer for us to try to hold on to them until they become age eligible in starting a power tumbling program, lots of smaller gyms don't have that option.

 

[vannahlexis]

I agree! But the same rule should apply for the worlds and summit bids. Many of the bids go to the same gym just different teams within that gyms and it just isn't fair for the other teams that deserved a bid. But didn't get one because multiple teams from the same gym got it.

Just because the teams are from the same gym doesn't give them any advantage. If you are ahead in the bid order it's because you earned it, right? So, just because teams from other gyms "deserve" one too, doesn't make them score higher than the teams in front of them, which makes it a lot less "fair".

I just feel like regardless of team or gym your score should be the determinate of the bid order.

 

[Ashley]

Just because the teams are from the same gym doesn't give them any advantage. If you are ahead in the bid order it's because you earned it, right? So, just because teams from other gyms "deserve" one too, doesn't make them score higher than the teams in front of them, which makes it a lot less "fair".

I just feel like regardless of team or gym your score should be the determinate of the bid order.

There's no rules about crossovers though, except for at NCA. So you could have two teams of virtually the same athletes. Both of those teams are fantastic and at the top of the bid order, but when worlds rolls around they have to replace their 10 crossovers and end up with a weaker team. That's not even an option smaller gyms have.

We usually have some boys from our senior team on my open team. After we get a bid we have to replace them, but we're never as strong as we were when they were on the team.

 

[vannahlexis]

There's no rules about crossovers though, except for at NCA. So you could have two teams of virtually the same athletes. Both of those teams are fantastic and at the top of the bid order, but when worlds rolls around they have to replace their 10 crossovers and end up with a weaker team. That's not even an option smaller gyms have.

We usually have some boys from our senior team on my open team. After we get a bid we have to replace them, but we're never as strong as we were when they were on the team.

That makes a lot more sense. Thank you for explaining!

 

[tumbleyoda]

There's no rules about crossovers though, except for at NCA. So you could have two teams of virtually the same athletes. Both of those teams are fantastic and at the top of the bid order, but when worlds rolls around they have to replace their 10 crossovers and end up with a weaker team. That's not even an option smaller gyms have.

We usually have some boys from our senior team on my open team. After we get a bid we have to replace them, but we're never as strong as we were when they were on the team.

I have seen this happen at a Worlds Bid comps. Team on the floor that won the bid had athletes from other Level 5 teams in the gym (the main highlight teams) that were shooting for a Bid later in the year. It is not against the rules so it just sucks. Why care about ethics when you just got another Full Paid or Partial Paid World's Bid for your gym? This is another area where the small gym can't compete against the larger gyms - in replacing crossover athletes or injured athletes.

 

[TealShades]

I agree 100 percent with what you have posted @Kris. In an industry that has created skills that almost mandate using the smaller sized and often younger aged fliers to do the transitional work the score sheet requires, what happens when you eliminate the ability to put them on the team when they do have the true skill to be on that team? When you are already struggling to find a good fit for them? Small gyms struggle enough just to field level appropriate teams, then being told they have to compete against gyms that can stack crossovers to the ceiling or sandbag an entire team in a division. The competitions they could once go to in order to groom their program are constantly being bought out by the monopoly and being priced out of their range or shut down completely. Then told they didn't try hard enough or their coaches simply aren't good enough.:banghead: Altering the age limit would be another major blow to these gyms

It would definitely hurt our gym. We would adjust, but it would hurt. While we came up with an answer for us to try to hold on to them until they become age eligible in starting a power tumbling program, lots of smaller gyms don't have that option.

if the age change gets passed, would the larger gyms or other gyms that crossover athletes/stack/sandbag have to change how they place their athletes? Would it hurt them in any way or will it just hurt small gyms?

 

[Mclovin]

If this logic is true, then surely, yes (with the exception of Senior 5). And I guess, this is where the problem lies. So much ambiguity in the divisions one is supposed To enter. In this scenario, the 11yo team won't do themselves any good competing upwards in ages. So THIS is why making definite age ranges would make sense, but for this to work, it would make better sense To take the AVERAGE of the athletes' ages instead of simply going by the oldest athlete (of course, with the exception of Senior 5 teams. But of couse, more problems will be caused.

P.s.- this issue doesn't deeply affect me, but as an observer, I find it really interesting, and thus my mind flows with a ton of thoughts

A few years back there was a Youth 3 team that changed divisions to Jr 3 for NCA Nationals because there was only 1-2 teams in that division. All 11 and under. So it is possible and has happened. I agree I would like to see something change to where it's more of a median age vs. oldest member on the team. I have a Sr 3 team that is senior because of 3 girls. More than 75% of the team is 13 and under. We have learned to make the most of it but I wouldn't be opposed to being able to be in a division based on median age.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I do not know if this is appropriate to this thread, but I could think of another thread besides the random cheerleading questions thread to put it in. Could a group of Eleven year olds (all still youth aged) compete in the Junior or Senior Division( the whole team still age-eligible to be in the Youth division)?I'm not saying they should, but is it legal? I can't think of a rule against it....

Yep, if you're really good you can be a junior team, go to worlds as a senior team and win the small senior division... CA Jags 06. Also I remember someone saying on here that everyone on Stingrays Slate this past season was junior age eligible.