All-Star 3 Major Changes To Address 3 Major Problems

[ztaprincess]

I'm not a USAG expert but I do coach at a gymnastics facility. I'll ask some more questions tonight.

Thank you, I am just really curious what they do when they discover more injuries caused my certain skills.

 

[X-sam]

im glad there still letting senior teams wear crop tops

 

[njallday]

Thank you, I am just really curious what they do when they discover more injuries caused my certain skills.

I believe it takes 4(?) catastrophic injuries to deem a certain skill illegal.. if that's what you're asking. though I'm sure whoever Rich asks who is actually in the sport can give you a much better reasoning/answer

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I have talked to a USAG coach who trains coaches in the northeast. I asked him this
"Why don't you teach Gymnasts to do standing fulls?"
He told me that it is not worth the risk of injury. He said to teach a properly executed standing full takes a very knowledgeable coach and he doesn't think the majority of coaches can teach a PROPERLY executed standing full.

I also asked him if there are illegal skills in gymnastics. He said that there are things that are illegal but it is different for boys and girls, but that is because they are competing separately. He said that once there are a certain amount of injuries that skills are deemed to be illegal by the USAG. It is NOT voted on by the member organizations. Also, once a skill is performed and there is a catastrophic injury, it is usually banned.

So the USASF is doing things that are considered acceptable by organizations that govern similar sports.

 

[Mclovin]

I have talked to a USAG coach who trains coaches in the northeast. I asked him this
"Why don't you teach Gymnasts to do standing fulls?"
He told me that it is not worth the risk of injury. He said to teach a properly executed standing full takes a very knowledgeable coach and he doesn't think the majority of coaches can teach a PROPERLY executed standing full.

I also asked him if there are illegal skills in gymnastics. He said that there are things that are illegal but it is different for boys and girls, but that is because they are competing separately. He said that once there are a certain amount of injuries that skills are deemed to be illegal by the USAG. It is NOT voted on by the member organizations. Also, once a skill is performed and there is a catastrophic injury, it is usually banned.

So the USASF is doing things that are considered acceptable by organizations that govern similar sports.

No, because the USASF is trying to ban skills that have never caused a catastrophic injury...a torn ACL or whatever is not serious enough of an injury to ban a particular skill... As far as the standing fulls go, just tell me the names of the athletes that you personally know that have done more than tweak an ankle or tear an ACL learning or competing them. Those injuries are always a possibility with any tumbling skill so you can't count those...

 

[imrichhowboutu]

But if it is generally known by well trained coaches to be a difficult skill to teach then that's all the governing powers needed.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[Keep_Believing]

So the changes made (good or bad) were to address 3 major problems.

1. Injuries are increasing in allstar cheerleading and cheerleading has issues getting insured. Hence new tumbling rules.

2. Cheerleading numbers have decreased last year drastically. Changing ages and divisions in theory open up the sport and make it a little bit more attractive to bring in new people (in theory).

3. The image portrayed of allstar cheer in the media is negatively impacting the sport (or so it is believed). Hence the image rules.

How should these problems have been addressed?

Any chance they will wait another cheer season to put the new age grid into place? Some gyms have already made teams & been practicing for almost 2 months. Completely changing teams up is not that easy unless you are a bigger gym.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Also. Why do we think an ACL tear isn't a major injury? A sprained ankle isn't a major injury. An Acl tear that requires surgery and extensive physical therapy is a major injury.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[Mclovin]

Also. Why do we think an ACL tear isn't a major injury? A sprained ankle isn't a major injury. An Acl tear that requires surgery and extensive physical therapy is a major injury.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

If on a scale of 1-10 death or paralyzation is major, an ACL is at best a 4-5. Yes it sucks, but it is totally recoverable and most athletes can be expected to make a full and complete recovery. Yes it's bad, but not bad enough to ban skills.

 

[Mclovin]

But if it is generally known by well trained coaches to be a difficult skill to teach then that's all the governing powers needed.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

There are lots of skills that are difficult to teach. If a coach doesn't feel capable of teaching it they shouldn't. But don't limit the ones that can...

 

[imrichhowboutu]

If on a scale of 1-10 death or paralyzation is major, an ACL is at best a 4-5. Yes it sucks, but it is totally recoverable and most athletes can be expected to make a full and complete recovery. Yes it's bad, but not bad enough to ban skills.

I would say death and paralysis are catastrophic injuries. Anything that takes months to recover from is major.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Also. How do we know they wont require that. There needs be a program put in place. You can't just arbitrarily say you're qualified and you're not. Once they put something into effect the skills could come back with proper instruction.

What you're saying is allow people to instruct the skills even if they're not qualified until the usasf puts a true certification on place?

Why wouldnt you remove the instruction until there is a class or whatever to evaluate coaches?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[viralscorp]

Here is my uneducated opinion. I am not an elite tumbler, nor am I credentialled in elite tumbling, nor have I ever coached elite tumbling. But if this is honest-to-goodness about unqualified coaches teaching advanced skills, I can't see the difference between a standing series to full and a series to double.

If I have no idea how to teach a double, how am I somehow qualified to teach fulls? Please, tell me (because I actually don't know) how many gyms have perfect, safe fulls but dangerous doubles? How many gyms have perfect whip fulls but dangerous whip doubles?

If Suzie has a dangerous full to start with, yes, then 'trying' to double is even more dangerous. But I don't think this is a problem with the level of skills available - this is a problem with identifying Suzie's limitations (by Suzie, by her mom, by her coach).

I completely understand that there are safety concerns, and that they do need to be addressed. I just think that the proposed changes are not even a band-aid on the problems. Dangerous layouts are still going to generate athletes attempting even more dangerous fulls.

 

[cheerKT]

Couldn't any skills be potentially dangerous if they are being taught by untrained coaches? If the coach is not trained, what makes a standing full more dangerous than a standing tuck?

Or how about 1.5 ups? If they are being taught by someone who has no idea what they are doing, those have a high risk of injury.

My point is here, where is the line drawn?

 

[ztaprincess]

Also. How do we know they wont require that. There needs be a program put in place. You can't just arbitrarily say you're qualified and you're not. Once they put something into effect the skills could come back with proper instruction.

What you're saying is allow people to instruct the skills even if they're not qualified until the usasf puts a true certification on place?

Why wouldnt you remove the instruction until there is a class or whatever to evaluate coaches?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Why is the USASF just now deciding to work on this? How long has this been a problem? It was there before this season and they never took any steps. If they haven't taken any steps yet I have little faith they ever will. Instead they will just take skills away.
Like someone else mentioned these skills will still be done inside of gyms and injuries will continue to happen. All they did was tell people they can't throw it at a competition. Coaches that aren't trained will continue teaching them and causing injury.