All-Star I'm Going To Cheat

[CoachTamara]

If ...repeat...if it is true that one athlete does not make a difference and if we can get away from the look of a full team and the stunts/pyramids they can do vs a team doing what they can with who they have, then eliminating crossovers makes sense. Especially since we can not seem to stop the abuse or overuse of crossovers.

Move over yojaehs.

I don't want to take away from this thread, because I think it's a great discussion and could very easily be ruined by the dreaded crossover argument... BUT as a VERY small gym, you cannot tell me crossovers are the end all be all of my program and will put me in the ground. It would simply change the way I make my teams. If I have a team of 10 that is good and can max out the scoresheet, then that is fine. But, many of the problems and issues in this industry stem from the fact that crossovers are used, abused, and create an "unfair" playing field. You need crossovers to win/be competitive? Well, you'll still get beat by the team that is competing level 2 and is made up of level 3 and 4 athletes.
Ok, seriously-I'm not saying anymore about it. No matter how much I wanna!

 

[tumbleyoda]

Ahhh I've got a partner on my ride!!! Here is my thing, we are told team sizes and divisions change every year (costing lots of people money) why not cancel crossovers!? They seem to be the root of all evil and issues anyway!?

Because then you have to have athletes only be on their age appropriate and skill appropriate team. You couldn't offer them a spot on a Level 3, 4 or 5 team when in reality they are a level 2plus. Now your total number of teams in the gym drops and suddenly you are not as big as you have been saying that you are. Suzies' mom now has even more incentive to try to gym hop to be on a higher level 3 or 4 team with her frogged over BHS.:jawdrop:

***DUCKING***

 

[yojaehs]

I don't want to take away from this thread, because I think it's a great discussion and could very easily be ruined by the dreaded crossover argument... BUT as a VERY small gym, you cannot tell me crossovers are the end all be all of my program and will put me in the ground. It would simply change the way I make my teams. If I have a team of 10 that is good and can max out the scoresheet, then that is fine. But, many of the problems and issues in this industry stem from the fact that crossovers are used, abused, and create an "unfair" playing field. You need crossovers to win/be competitive? Well, you'll still get beat by the team that is competing level 2 and is made up of level 3 and 4 athletes.
Ok, seriously-I'm not saying anymore about it. No matter how much I wanna!

Nothing like getting a southern belle on a soap box!!! Preach on girl!

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

Can I get an AMEN!? (now I will run and hide from the following "small gyms can't survive" posts)

We can all run and hide together! Up with hope, down with crossovers.... Haha.

 

[XtremeWpg]

The only time I think you should be able to cross over is if an injury occurs IN WARMUP at an event, and you need to pull someone (of the right age for the division the injured athlete is in) to compete. Tho, this is more "sub" than "cross over"...

Other than that, down with the cross overs. It's not needed.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Absolute.

Transparency is still the downfall of USASF at this point.

ACEDAD, you and I have discussed this topic, so I'm not surprised that you feel this way. But my question is how is the transparency issue related to this topic. I believe there is a public posting of all cases that are closed by the Discliplinary Committee and Compliance Committee, so I thought the USASF had suceeded in being transparent in this manner.

 

[SarahS]

ACEDAD, you and I have discussed this topic, so I'm not surprised that you feel this way. But my question is how is the transparency issue related to this topic. I believe there is a public posting of all cases that are closed by the Discliplinary Committee and Compliance Committee, so I thought the USASF had suceeded in being transparent in this manner.

So there haven't been any closed cases since 2010-2011? USASF.NET

 

[Labegg]

Forget birth certificates or copies of birth certificates they are too easy to forge. EP's & Gyms should be asking for an original passport, or at the very least state issued hard card ID(s). Most states have "walker" IDs for those not old enough to drive. Match the face with the passport or ID when the team signs in for warm ups. Much harder for a parent to forge a passport or state ID

Once took a team to a very small, very poorly run event on the east coast. The whole event was "lame". BUT, they were one of the few events we went to that season that actually asked to see the birth certificates (even though copies had been sent with registration) again and matched a birth certificate with each name and d.o.b. on the roster as well as making sure that there was a parent signed medical release for each name. Actually saw them turn someone away because a team couldn't produce the copy of the birth certificate for an athlete.

At the beginning of every soccer game the referee matches the photo id issued by the state youth soccer association (which is certified at the beginning of the season) with the faces in front him and names on the roster. Substitutes are required to be certified by the League registrar prior to playing in a game. Lacrosse and Field Hockey register athletes on a national level. Really there is no excuse why cheer can't do it.

 

[Ashley]

Forget birth certificates or copies of birth certificates they are too easy to forge. EP's & Gyms should be asking for an original passport, or at the very least state issued hard card ID(s). Most states have "walker" IDs for those not old enough to drive. Match the face with the passport or ID when the team signs in for warm ups. Much harder for a parent to forge a passport or state ID

To the best of my knowledge, my state doesn't have any sort of id card like that for minors. And passports aren't exactly cheap. I didn't get one until college because I had never left the country before then. Easy to forge or not, birth certificates are valid forms of id. I STILL have to show my birth certificate when I start a new job.

 

[Labegg]

To the best of my knowledge, my state doesn't have any sort of id card like that for minors. And passports aren't exactly cheap. I didn't get one until college because I had never left the country before then. Easy to forge or not, birth certificates are valid forms of id. I STILL have to show my birth certificate when I start a new job.

Exactly my point...passports are not cheap, all the more reason that someone is not likely to cheat, if it hits them in the pocket.

 

[Ashley]

Exactly my point...passports are not cheap, all the more reason that someone is not likely to cheat, if it hits them in the pocket.

You shouldn't be forced to go pay for a passport to cheer though. It's not the easiest process to get one, and would only further exclude scholarshipped athletes. Plus, I think depending on the parental situation, it can be very difficult to get a passport for a minor.

 

[Mom Jeans]

To the best of my knowledge, my state doesn't have any sort of id card like that for minors. And passports aren't exactly cheap. I didn't get one until college because I had never left the country before then. Easy to forge or not, birth certificates are valid forms of id. I STILL have to show my birth certificate when I start a new job.

if you're in Mass you can get a state issued id at 14yrs

 

[CharlotteASMom]

At the beginning of every soccer game the referee matches the photo id issued by the state youth soccer association (which is certified at the beginning of the season) with the faces in front him and names on the roster. Substitutes are required to be certified by the League registrar prior to playing in a game. Lacrosse and Field Hockey register athletes on a national level. Really there is no excuse why cheer can't do it.

I've been using the youth soccer analogy for awhile Hopefully you'll get further with it than I have.

Of course soccer uses birth certificates and it eliminates most of the cheating. I'd be thrilled if cheer took that step.

 

[wcdad]

Why does the process of Athlete Registration have to be from within the Cheer World? There are MANY MANY 3rd Party Companies out there that are all set up, secure and are ready to undertake this process. It could happen this year. All it would take is for every EP that hosts a USASF Event require that registration be done from ABC Company.

https://www.youthsportsid.com/athl.html

This company is just one. They charge 5 dollars a year, they require a Birth Certificate, Photo, School Verification that included grade, Valid Insurance Card, Copy of Physical, and Last yeas Sports ID card if you are returning.

They provide a 2nd card for the coach in a book to present at team check in, as well as a team registration print out.

There is nothing stopping this process but not wanting to.

I would gladley pay $5.00 a year to fix this. I pay more for my CP's Bow

 

[Ashley]

if you're in Mass you can get a state issued id at 14yrs

Labegg PM'ed me that, but I think it's 16. And it's a state id in place of a driver's license. But that still doesn't solve the problem for those under that age.

You shouldn't be accepting photo copies of birth certificates. Bring in the signed and stamped one and make a copy of it on the spot, or at least ask to see the notarized one while accepting the copy. Harder to forge that way.