All-Star I'm Going To Cheat

[Mo-Lissa]

Let me get this straight....so I am a gym owner, and Suzi cheered for me for several years, parents very cheer savvy with rules ect. (we all know the type)....then leaves goes to another gym, and we are at a competition and I see Suzi compete as a crossover on more than the allotted teams allowed. I decide it is cheating, which it very clearly is... and make a claim against it. Now I am at fault for damaging a child, get accused of jealousy and a million other things, my gym is now talked about, and how bad we are for doing this. Where is the glory in being the one to turn Suzi in, or do I turn my head because I don't need or want the backlash.
PS~Here is the crossover rule for this season, so we don't have any claims people don't know about it....maybe it should go in your gym handbook for your parents....

CROSSOVERS
An individual will not be permitted to crossover from one program to another within the same event (Exception: An athlete from one gym may crossover to one additional gym’s Level 6 team provided (s)he meets the age requirement.
For the 2012-13 season, an all-star cheerleader is limited to crossing over to 2 (two) additional cheer teams from their gym per competition. Therefore, an athlete may compete on one team and crossover to two more teams from the same gym during the competition.
An event producer may choose to be more restrictive than the rules above for crossovers limiting the number of teams an athlete may crossover to further; however an event producer may not be less restrictive than this.
Crossover limitations above do not include athletes that crossover from cheer to dance.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Let me get this straight....so I am a gym owner, and Suzi cheered for me for several years, parents very cheer savvy with rules ect. (we all know the type)....then leaves goes to another gym, and we are at a competition and I see Suzi compete as a crossover on more than the allotted teams allowed. I decide it is cheating, which it very clearly is... and make a claim against it. Now I am at fault for damaging a child, get accused of jealousy and a million other things, my gym is now talked about, and how bad we are for doing this. Where is the glory in being the one to turn Suzi in, or do I turn my head because I don't need or want the backlash.
PS~Here is the crossover rule for this season, so we don't have any claims people don't know about it....maybe it should go in your gym handbook for your parents....

CROSSOVERS
An individual will not be permitted to crossover from one program to another within the same event (Exception: An athlete from one gym may crossover to one additional gym’s Level 6 team provided (s)he meets the age requirement.
For the 2012-13 season, an all-star cheerleader is limited to crossing over to 2 (two) additional cheer teams from their gym per competition. Therefore, an athlete may compete on one team and crossover to two more teams from the same gym during the competition.
An event producer may choose to be more restrictive than the rules above for crossovers limiting the number of teams an athlete may crossover to further; however an event producer may not be less restrictive than this.
Crossover limitations above do not include athletes that crossover from cheer to dance.

I think I must just be the Queen B of the Universe. Someone said (I forget who) in the recently closed thread something to the effect of it being hard to pull the trigger on cheating issues because it does get to the livlihood of a gym etc etc and it's just really hard as an individual to put someone's means of making a living and supporting a family on the line like that.

I've heard people say the same thing about firing folks, that it's really hard for them to do because it's their paycheck and their livlihood etc.

I've determined I'm apparently sitting in first class on the express train to $%## because I totally don't feel that way.

I am in a supervisory position and I have fired people. I've never lost sleep over it because the only people that I've fired are the ones who aren't doing their job in the first place. If they're doing what they're supposed to be, functioning productively and ethically, they don't have to worry about being fired. The only ones I've gotten rid of were the ones who weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing for that paycheck, so I really didn't care if they had to go find somewhere else to get one. They weren't going to be a slacker, draw a paycheck and shortchange MY students' education for it.

I feel the same way here. If you're going to be unethical, and cheat, and put your KIDS in a position where they will be the ones to suffer if you get caught....I could care less if I'm calling you out and I will lose not one iota of sleep over it because it was the personal choice of the person I'm calling out to act unethically in the first place.

So, if you don't mind, I'll order my white martini with a sugar rim for my first class trip to $%## but that's exactly how I feel about that.

 

[ACEDAD]

ACEDAD what do you think is a "reasonable" consequence?

I don't have a set of penalties in mind, but they need to be publicly listed and appropriate.

 

[Mo-Lissa]

I think I must just be the Queen B of the Universe. Someone said (I forget who) in the recently closed thread something to the effect of it being hard to pull the trigger on cheating issues because it does get to the livlihood of a gym etc etc and it's just really hard as an individual to put someone's means of making a living and supporting a family on the line like that.

I've heard people say the same thing about firing folks, that it's really hard for them to do because it's their paycheck and their livlihood etc.

I've determined I'm apparently sitting in first class on the express train to $%## because I totally don't feel that way.

I am in a supervisory position and I have fired people. I've never lost sleep over it because the only people that I've fired are the ones who aren't doing their job in the first place. If they're doing what they're supposed to be, functioning productively and ethically, they don't have to worry about being fired. The only ones I've gotten rid of were the ones who weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing for that paycheck, so I really didn't care if they had to go find somewhere else to get one. They weren't going to be a slacker, draw a paycheck and shortchange MY students' education for it.

I feel the same way here. If you're going to be unethical, and cheat, and put your KIDS in a position where they will be the ones to suffer if you get caught....I could care less if I'm calling you out and I will lose not one iota of sleep over it because it was the personal choice of the person I'm calling out to act unethically in the first place.

So, if you don't mind, I'll order my white martini with a sugar rim for my first class trip to $%## but that's exactly how I feel about that.

Great Answer!!!! Maybe we all should think about your words!! I applaud you for your courage...shows your integrity!

 

[ASCheerMan]

ASCheerMan are you posting all these athlete registration solution answers representing NCA or USASF?

I'm confused as to What difference that makes. I guess I'm posting them as the guy that works for NCA who sits on various committees of the USASF and attended all 5 USASF Regional Meetings this summer and heard the presentation that was made to the coaches . The info I've been providing is the same information available to all members who attended a meeting.

 

[ASCheerMan]

I think I must just be the Queen B of the Universe. Someone said (I forget who) in the recently closed thread something to the effect of it being hard to pull the trigger on cheating issues because it does get to the livlihood of a gym etc etc and it's just really hard as an individual to put someone's means of making a living and supporting a family on the line like that.

I've heard people say the same thing about firing folks, that it's really hard for them to do because it's their paycheck and their livlihood etc.

I've determined I'm apparently sitting in first class on the express train to $%## because I totally don't feel that way.

I am in a supervisory position and I have fired people. I've never lost sleep over it because the only people that I've fired are the ones who aren't doing their job in the first place. If they're doing what they're supposed to be, functioning productively and ethically, they don't have to worry about being fired. The only ones I've gotten rid of were the ones who weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing for that paycheck, so I really didn't care if they had to go find somewhere else to get one. They weren't going to be a slacker, draw a paycheck and shortchange MY students' education for it.

I feel the same way here. If you're going to be unethical, and cheat, and put your KIDS in a position where they will be the ones to suffer if you get caught....I could care less if I'm calling you out and I will lose not one iota of sleep over it because it was the personal choice of the person I'm calling out to act unethically in the first place.

So, if you don't mind, I'll order my white martini with a sugar rim for my first class trip to $%## but that's exactly how I feel about that.

My point in referencing the livelihood of the accused was to express that finding someone guilty or disqualifying them is a BIG deal and not a decision to be taken lightly. Because its such a big deal, tangible evidence has to be provided that confirms the accusation beyond a reasonable doubt. 9 times out of 10, my research on a claim ends up with accuser being incorrect in their assumptions of the facts.

I don't have any sympathy for a gym owner who cheats. They have it coming. But in some cases, the COMPLETE story changes the picture. For example, when I coached at Cheer Athletics, we had an athlete who lied to us about his birthday, competed with Wildcats and earned a bid to Worlds with an age-ineligible athlete. When CA found out, they returned the bid, kicked the athlete out, and behave with nothing but class. So CA was responsible, but I wouldn't go so far as to paint Jody Melton as the bad, unethical coach who's making careless decisions at the expense of children.

 

[12stepCheermom]

My point in referencing the livelihood of the accused was to express that finding someone guilty or disqualifying them is a BIG deal and not a decision to be taken lightly. Because its such a big deal, tangible evidence has to be provided that confirms the accusation beyond a reasonable doubt. 9 times out of 10, my research on a claim ends up with accuser being incorrect in their assumptions of the facts.

I don't have any sympathy for a gym owner who cheats. They have it coming. But in some cases, the COMPLETE story changes the picture. For example, when I coached at Cheer Athletics, we had an athlete who lied to us about his birthday, competed with Wildcats and earned a bid to Worlds with an age-ineligible athlete. When CA found out, they returned the bid, kicked the athlete out, and behave with nothing but class. So CA was responsible, but I wouldn't go so far as to paint Jody Melton as the bad, unethical coach who's making careless decisions at the expense of children.

I get that, and never implied otherwise. Firing someone isn't something I take lightly either, but in the end after extensive due process on my part (and you described due process here) if the accusation is true and a coach cheated willfully, then I don't have an issue with them getting what they deserve.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Edited for length.

I would assume many of the people who feel guilty about firing someone, say so in the instance where it is a layoff, or the person insisting they be fired has a personal grudge/vendetta and the person who HAS to fire them doesn't, etc. Or the person is kind and a good person but just isn't the right fit for the job. That's just what I've heard. Unless you're my sister, and you don't like yelling at people cause you're super sweet and a big softie.

I would assume in an instance where the person is incompetent and dealing with children, that you HAVE to make the best decision, regardless of personal feelings. (You're a school principal, right? I thought I read you saying that somewhere?)

As for an appropriate punishment for cheating, you definitely need a tiered system. Starting with minor infractions and going up. Stripping of titles if it's caught after the comp is over, DQing if they are caught before awards. I'd try to think of others, but my brain is mush right now.

 

[12stepCheermom]

cause you're super sweet and a big softie.

Things I've never been accused of and yes, I'm a high school principal.

You're right, I've had to layoff good, hard working people (just got the opportunity to hire one of those back to a better position over a year later) and that is awful. But for people that you have cause to get rid of...I don't mind getting rid of them, and with our due process procedures it's not like they don't have at least a year to fix it, have me help them and know exactly what the expectation is, how to fix it and tons of resources to work on it. If after all that, you still present cause to be let go...yeah, I'm not feeling bad about it.

 

[CheerBank]

I don't have a set of penalties in mind, but they need to be publicly listed and appropriate.

I think the public listing is truly a key component.

 

[ACEDAD]

I think the public listing is truly a key component.

Absolute.

Transparency is still the downfall of USASF at this point.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I have a legitimate question:
When punishing people who crossover too much, or crossover too much of their team, which team do you punish? Both? One? Whatever was the last team to compete that puts them at 'over?' The team they competed on first? Do you punish the whole gym for one team? What if the team DOESN'T end up winning, what is their punishment then (assuming you caught them after they competed and awards)? Obviously you'd still make it public that they cheated, but I want to know where we draw the line. Does it become X number of teams in that division, plus Y team who was DQ'd? I think what some people are afraid of is that an entire gym will suffer, meaning kids who had NOTHING to do with decisions for a team they're not even on..all because of one kid on one team.

I just want to get a feel for people's opinions on that aspect.

 

[BlueCat]

I have a legitimate question:
When punishing people who crossover too much, or crossover too much of their team, which team do you punish? Both? One? Whatever was the last team to compete that puts them at 'over?' The team they competed on first? Do you punish the whole gym for one team? What if the team DOESN'T end up winning, what is their punishment then (assuming you caught them after they competed and awards)? Obviously you'd still make it public that they cheated, but I want to know where we draw the line. Does it become X number of teams in that division, plus Y team who was DQ'd? I think what some people are afraid of is that an entire gym will suffer, meaning kids who had NOTHING to do with decisions for a team they're not even on..all because of one kid on one team.

I just want to get a feel for people's opinions on that aspect.

My personal opinion is that every team an over-crossed athlete competed on should be disqualified, regardless of which one is their original team.

 

[kristenthegreat]

My personal opinion is that every team an over-crossed athlete competed on should be disqualified, regardless of which one is their original team.

Thank you for your honest reply. I'm trying to piece together a general idea of what sanctions/punishments everyone finds to be as close to universally accepted as possible.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I have a legitimate question:
When punishing people who crossover too much, or crossover too much of their team, which team do you punish? Both? One? Whatever was the last team to compete that puts them at 'over?' The team they competed on first? Do you punish the whole gym for one team? What if the team DOESN'T end up winning, what is their punishment then (assuming you caught them after they competed and awards)? Obviously you'd still make it public that they cheated, but I want to know where we draw the line. Does it become X number of teams in that division, plus Y team who was DQ'd? I think what some people are afraid of is that an entire gym will suffer, meaning kids who had NOTHING to do with decisions for a team they're not even on..all because of one kid on one team.

I just want to get a feel for people's opinions on that aspect.

At a minimum all the teams the athlete is on. I'd be okay with the entire gym because the leadership of the gym knew or should have known.